In the interest of getting "newbie" off my profile, I just thought of a post that I think is worthy of some discussion, and is relevant to this site.
I just got the latest copy of Australian Guitarist which contains an article about file sharing and how it is "heavily affecting U.K. record sales". There is one little bit, pertinent I think, that contends that most people don't bat an eyelid when it comes to nicking a track here or there, but would never consider shoplifting a cd or dvd. Personally, I've never done it because I like buying cds', the whole package thing and actually having something I can hold appeals to me far more than just a file on an i-pod ( which I don't own.).
How do you folks feel about this? Is file sharing etc really going to destroy a large part, or all, of the industry? Do musicians deserve to get paid for their toil?
Just found This on Youtube...
It doesn't express my view.... But I Like it..... ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU7axyrHWDQ"The Man" is angry!!! Beware !!!
Would that be 'Da Man?'
I noticed that the people behind one of the big torrent sites are being charged with secondary copyright theft, that is making theft possible for others.
Better not leave your doors open folks.
or was it made by some clever smart arse to ease their own conscience.?
Quote from: s.w.goatlips on March 11, 2010, 02:48:42 PMPersonally, I've never done it because I like buying cds', the whole package thing and actually having something I can hold appeals to me far more than just a file on an i-pod ( which I don't own.).
How do you folks feel about this? Is file sharing etc really going to destroy a large part, or all, of the industry? Do musicians deserve to get paid for their toil?
I love to CD shop as well...enjoy the packaging and deciding on how to spend...the music becomes much more special to me. I don't own an ipod or MP3 player either, though my daughter has 2 MP3 players. I upload a lot of my CDs to her player.
Having said that, I do credit file sharing to finding great unsigned or obscure artists that wouldn't be found in the local HMV CD shop.
Great free music through sites like this is saving me a heck of a lot of cash I used to spend on CDs!
I prefer CDs and other physical formats to a point - until like now, when I've got too dang many of them! CDs, LPs, DVDs, etc. :D
I have, on occasion, downloaded an mp3 or two. If I like the music, I buy a CD which I then rip and listen to on my iPod. If I don't like what I downloaded, it's deleted and gone.
But I gots to have me an iPod... :)
Quote from: s.w.goatlips on March 11, 2010, 04:57:35 PMor was it made by some clever smart arse to ease their own conscience.?
Has someone stolen one of your songs?
You seem very passionate about this...
Personally, I only listen to music from this site....
And dont listen to copied music....
But if I was a big time signed artist and someone wanted to listen to my tune (Copied or not), I would be flattered ....
For anyone to earn Millions of pounds for a few hours work (as someone would for selling a hit record) is disgraceful!!!
There is something very wrong with the world when someone can be so rich for such little work...
I think that in the near future, the only money to be made from Music will be from Live performances....
And The Majority of the Music is made by a Minority of people/producers and artists in this day and age...
I hate Lining the pockets of a Monopoly....
And I define an Honest days work as this...
I Quote the Book of Tempest...
Quote from: henwrench on January 20, 2010, 04:04:52 PMNever forget, when The Beatles were doing Hamburg and no one had ever heard of them, they played 12 hours+ a day for about 6 months...
henwrench
That deserves a wedge of Money...
This Does not deserve Money.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnoaj8b2bGMWell Maybe a bit..... ;D
I too predominantly listen to music from this site. Youtube is loaded with anything you could possibly want to listen to. I'm not sure of the legalities there, but if I hear a cover here, and want to listen to the original... its there.
I have an ipod, I use it. a lot of the music on this site has made my ipod what it is today. I too am not a fan of making rich people more rich any more than Tharek is. I feel the same way about professional athletes. I often wonder what they would be doing if they had not made it to the show. I respect that they train and meet their goals, but its no excuse to line pockets.
Quote from: Tony W on March 11, 2010, 05:48:29 PMI feel the same way about professional athletes. I often wonder what they would be doing if they had not made it to the show. I respect that they train and meet their goals, but its no excuse to line pockets.
Amen Brother!!!!
I think Respect is worth more than Money!!!
"Earn"....."Honest days' work"........ obviously this topic is very subjective.
Firstly to my mind, we live in a system (known commonly as Capitalism) in which free enterprise is the natural order of things.
In the case of professional athletes etc I have very little interest in sports as a whole, and particularly as a form of business, however I suspect that I am in a minority on that simply by looking at the amount of public interest, and therefore money generated by it. Sport is an industry, and so is music to many many people. In both cases, investment has been made. And investment doesn't necessarily mean cash. It can mean time, inellectual input, physical labour and all things in between. Shouldn't those involved be paid for their time, their labour, their ORIGINAL concepts. Who can say ? I feel that Society in general says yes they should, that's why they are an industry. Did Picasso or Jackson Pollock deserve their income? They certainly made a lot more money than any trifling job like being a President or Prime Minister.
Whether we like it or not, we live in this system. How much we participate is entirely our choice (for those of us in these comfy middle class economies).
Peter Sunde ( co-founder of Pirate Bay-a file sharing site) said on the BBC "If I want it, I take it, 'cause I can. It might be moral to some people but I think it's up to me to decide".
Moral.....Immoral. like I said , very subjective. We judge and we are judged by our values.
A law is only valid if it is enforceable. Clearly certain content distribution laws/rules are not enforceable, and it is only a matter of time before commercially viable media distribution methods are introduced. It will be up to the owners of any electronic media in question to come up with a way to protect their property.
I think the people in the US who remember when you couldn't make a right turn at a red light (within reason) will understand this principle. The cops couldn't write enough tickets to maintain that pointless law.
The internet was initially designed to distribute information in a public domain format. I don't remember when the rules were ever changed to indicate otherwise. And to make things worse, violators of copyright laws are usually punished by having their offensive post "taken down" by Youtube, for example. They keep their account, and get to host all the other copyrighted posts that have not been picked up yet. When all a 15 year old kid has to his/her name is pocket change, a skateboard and a cell phone to his name, how do you plan to punish him/her?
Well, that was 5 minutes I'll never get back, so I digress...
That is so True Mark......
As a Lead on from That......
"Why do we choose to make Music So Elitist!”
I have heard People Playing in the street that are 1000 times better than any person selling Their music....
What does the “Artist” want?
To be Heard?
Or to make Money?
I only want to listen to Musicians who want to share their art...
The Message they want to relay....
Not some Idiot who wants to make a quick buck....
Many an artist gained fame posthumously ........ Respect and recongnition....
They Never made a dime!!!
And they are regarded as the best....
They shaped the discipline that they dwelled in....
“Van-Gogh”.....
“Nick Drake”...
“Eva Cassidy”....
I'd take a Van-Gogh over a Picasso any day.....
And S.W bro....
Please don't take any of what I am saying as a personal attack.....
Just talking my friend...... :)
I tend to download a boatload of live music. Everything off the BTetree tracker and the Internet Music Archive involve trade-friendly bands, so I know it's got the blessing of the artist (The band/management has to agree before a band is allowed on the sites).
I try to stay away from file-sharing sites, but I have traded usb drives with a few friends. I guess that's in the same ballpark (and not too different from the old days of cassette dupes). I can try to explain it away, but it would still be a mere rationalization. Oddly, most of the MP3's I have received from others, I already own on disc (I have over 10,000). I'm just either too lazy to rip them, or I don't know where the heck they are in the collection. Sad but true.
I really like how you can sample song snippets on sites like Amazon. If I find myself digging it, I throw it in the shopping cart.
Blooby
This is NOT in specific reference to anything anyone has posted so far...
I think the thought of the "struggling artist" putting their "soul" into their music, art, writing, etc. is a fallacy. I've known many "struggling artist" in my life, and this includes myself, who would LOVE to do their art as how they make their living. That doesn't mean being a millionaire per se... But I know most do like to have to work their "day" job and only do their music as time permits.
So they do like any other business... They make a product. A product they have every right to sell. Whether it is "virtual" or not is irrelevant. Although it IS incredibly unfortunate that the record companies make the majority of the money from record sales, their side of it is pretty much like play the stock market. Sign a band, they pay for all studio fees, mastering, printing, marketing, and on top of that, until the band can afford to do so themselves... they pay for touring too. IF you are lucky enough to get a contract like that.
As far as what/who they are willing to sign, unfortunately, WE (people in general) have shown that we are not willing to pay for that stuff. I mean, SOMEONE is buying Britney Spears, N'SYNC, etc...
It can be a huge risk for the amount of money they have to spend.
I used Napster quite a bit in the early days. As soon as I found something i liked, I bought the CD. I happen to be in a business where we deal with this very issue every day. And I know how much money is lost when people resort to DL'ing product. Product you worked very hard to create. And then to see someone say that what you made is not worth buying... It isn't nice. WE go to great lengths to limit this kind of theft, but there will always be those out there that think they can justify taking what is not theirs.
No matter how you slice it, that is exactly what it is. It seems all nice that people "should" share their product, but no one has a right to others creations, no matter how benevolent it is made out to be.
Hope this made sense... typing quickly as I am exporting information for work ;)
Take it personally? I really like Vinnie Van Gogh.
The guy was cool...
And must be immortal!
Look!
(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/8/128732267736918335.jpg)
Hey, that ear looks fake!
Congrats goatlips, you're no longer a newbie.
Interesting thread, and lots of interesting opinions.
It's important to remember that a number of studies show that the people downloading and filesharing illegally are the SAME ones who buy more LEGAL CD's than anyone else. They are the ones with such a huge interest in music that they'll often 'audition' new bands and music before going on to buy the proper CD. Record companies should have been all over this 'try before you buy' marketing approach a long long time ago (although they seem to have come around to the idea slowly...).
As far as I'm concerned, record companies had it coming to them for inflating the price of CD's, and not being sharp enough through sheer arrogance to realise the potential (and threat) of online music.
From a personal point of view, in the early days of Napster (around 2000-2001, before any industry types were taking much notice of the potential threat to them and it wasn't classed as illegal), I was able to collect all the weird, obscure songs that I'd never have had the money to buy, and in most cases, wouldn't find anyway. I'm talking about old tv theme tunes, and obscure half-remembered songs from when I was a kid. I didn't feel bad about it at the time, and although I no longer do ANY music or film downloads (paid or otherwise), I still don't feel bad about it. Just like I wouldn't feel bad about buying a knock-off Armani suit in Thailand. Maybe that makes me immoral, but I'm upfront about it.
I agree with Tharek's point that gigs will be where money is made in the future. It's already becoming the case that CD's are becoming trailers / adverts for the forthcoming tour. Radiohead realised this a while ago, or maybe realised that the old model of record buying is dead in the water.
And you only have to look at Sunday newspapers containing giveaway albums and even NEW albums to realise that the world really has changed for music.
But what do I care. I'll just keep on writing songs and singing them whatever, lol.
I'm against file sharing in principle as it is stealing in my book, especially when there are now plenty of alternatives like last.fm and myspace where you can hear music without downloading it to see if you like it. So the same medium that made file sharing possible (the Internet) has also removed the argument that you need to download a song without paying for it to see if you like it. Example - I heard about a band called "Wolf Eyes" today so checked out their mysapce site to see if I would like them (which I didn't!). They had two songs there I could play in full.
I agree with Greeny's point that the music business was slow to react to new media and of course reacted in the wrong way (fighting it instead of embracing it). But there are now plenty of ways you can consume music online without getting someone else to break copyright laws for you. And those laws are there to protect people like us just as much as Metallica or whoever.
Just MO, not a dig at anyone.
Cheers,
Nigel
Quote from: OsCKilO on March 11, 2010, 05:27:10 PMI think that in the near future, the only money to be made from Music will be from Live performances....
Now that I think is true. And that I think is just.
saying that since file sharing sort of kicked in i think there has been an exponential rise in buskers.
thanks TW.
I suspect that for many musicians, live will be the primary income, however unless they can fill a stadium the money may be hard come by.
There are two reasons this all bothers me.
Firstly, as I said earlier, I like buying the odd CD here and there. I'm worried my choices in this are going to diminish fairly rapidly.
The other one is that I HATE large crowds. I LOVE live music but the two stadium shows that I have been to in my time have really put me off ever doing it again. Gimme small 'n intimate any day.