Songcrafters.org

Last night I was listening to some inspiring music and had an idea regarding our community:

What if we let go of the Boss BR brand and become a fully featured Music/Songwriting community?

Let's face it, digital multitrack recorders are losing popularity fast and the truth is that the greatest attraction of our community is and always was the Post Your MP3 board, not the actual recorders. What I understand from this is that people want to share their music regardless of the recording medium and that this is in fact the true purpose of our community: to share music.

Recently I've disallowed the uploading of MP3 to the forum because of hosting issues. I choose a limiting approach when in fact I should have choosen the opposite approach. If the idea was to work, I could upgrade the server to a VPS and allow for the uploading once again.

We would take what exist and just expand it, no posts would be deleted or music lost. New boards would be added and old ones merged.

It would be the biggest step taken since the beggining of this community.

What do you think?

genius...sounds like a perfect plan!

i think its a good idea too but just remember i think the thing that brought the majority of people here was to help them get to grips with their particular recorder, thats certainly how i found this site. so keep a help and advice part to the forum.

ADM - Your Forum, Thy Will Be Done.

Er, but how come we have a new thread every couple of weeks with Members salivating about the next generation of BRs etc?

Good point from ORH.

Shall we prepare to delete our Soundclick etc accounts?

Quote from: oldrottenhead on December 10, 2009, 12:57:29 PMi think its a good idea too but just remember i think the thing that brought the majority of people here was to help them get to grips with their particular recorder, thats certainly how i found this site. so keep a help and advice part to the forum.

I'd second that Jim

I'll third that  ;D  - being able to learn the recorders from fellow users is what brought me here.

Quote from: andrewh on December 10, 2009, 01:06:07 PM

Quote from: oldrottenhead on December 10, 2009, 12:57:29 PMi think its a good idea too but just remember i think the thing that brought the majority of people here was to help them get to grips with their particular recorder, thats certainly how i found this site. so keep a help and advice part to the forum.

I'd second that Jim

Me too.

I'm pretty lukewarm on the idea.  There already are collaboration, songwriting, music communities that are well funded.

I've had many ideas and wishes for this community, but I've always felt that the model for improvement is to keep the orbit around the BR line until we have developed a solid model, then expand based on demand.  The "Post your MP3" satellite is a pretty dominant, affecting the tides and weather, and honestly we still don't have a user-friendly solution to facilitate that.

Quote from: admin on December 10, 2009, 11:56:56 AMLet's face it, digital multitrack recorders are losing popularity fast...

Really?

I like the idea, considering you keep the old posts especially the sticky threads that originally brought most of us to the site. 

Then, the helpful how-to's and tips and tricks are there for the multi-track recorders. 

I frequent other boards to hear other peoples music and get tips on song writing from specific song writing boards or vocal tips from vocalist boards.

Can you imagine the possibilities if we got, for instance, the vocalist expertise from other boards that we all seem to request help with from time to time.  I know I could use it.

 I really like this Idea, however IMO there is one very important thing to remember though, I would of probably never even found this site a year ago if I had not purchased a MicroBR and went looking for MicroBR specific user forums.

 In that time it's changed a lot around here, and the community has grown massively, and I thinnk it's only due to the fact that most others found this site because they've bought a BR recorder and like myself went looking for "more" on the internet.

 Anyways, no matter what I'll always visit this site, I love this community, you all are the best dang community on the internet IMO.

Has the digital multi-track recorders lost popularity? I see new faces here every time I log on. lukewarm would be an upgrade from where I sit. I like the forum as is. It is a good community, a very peaceful place.

Expand this out, and I for one will never be able to keep up with people's music. I have sorely lacked as of late, and its nearly impossible to give feedback on people's posts as is, because there are so many.

I might be one of the few, but I like this site as it stands.  

Why not just Change the heading to:-

The Boss Br Recorders "And Songwriting" Community.

Need not change a thing on the site...

Just Change that "Thingy" (Dont know the name) so it comes up on a google search for songwriting circles/forums...

There is already provision on the site..... 

Maybe the only change will be a merger of the Post your MP3 Boards.... 
The Standard of work which can be achieved is pretty much the same on each unit. The MBR guys are not "worse off" than someone with a Br1600....
May as well merge them...

Quote from: Tony W on December 10, 2009, 02:28:34 PMHas the digital multi-track recorders lost popularity? I see new faces here every time I log on. lukewarm would be an upgrade from where I sit. I like the forum as is. It is a good community, a very peaceful place.

Expand this out, and I for one will never be able to keep up with people's music. I have sorely lacked as of late, and its nearly impossible to give feedback on people's posts as is, because there are so many.

I might be one of the few, but I like this site as it stands.  

After reading these comments I have reassessed my position on this and I agree with Tony...If it ain't broke - don't fix it...because there is no going back. We all love this place and I would hate to lose what we've got here.

  Researching the recorders is how I found this place and decided to buy the micro BR!!  That's what this place is all about.  There is a spot for other recorders, it is hardly used.  I think allowing a lot of others will create a huge influx of people.  I am with TonyW.  Its big enough now.

    As far as uploading to here.  That could have been done in the first place.  I have spent money for a place to stream from. So I will continue to use it.  How would we know that uploading might not  be blocked again in the future??

  As mentioned there are plenty of other communities if people want to go there.  This place rocks because of the way it is!!  I for one have learned a lot here!  I would not have learned this stuff at soundclick or any other place.
PJ

Is The merger of the Post your work boards Still Gonna happen though?

I think it would be a good Idea!

I think the focus of this board as a BR recorder's only board is a bit limiting.  Many of us use multiple bits of hardware and software to create the music that we share.

That being said, there are lots of other fora out there for song writers/musicians which some of us already frequent.  I frequent this board because it is different.  We all have the same recording limitations based on the BR recorders (and there are limitations).  We are all looking for tips and tricks that apply to our particular hardware. This community is "homey" and very welcoming.  Most of the others are not.  I would not want to see this community turn into that type, because I am certain that most of us would stop sharing our music here.

My vote is to leave it as is.  But its just my $0.02

While I understand and respect your motivations, the thought of the site ultimately getting larger makes me anxious about the loss of a community-feel. Anybody who has spent an inordinate amount of time on this site (14 Days 6 Hours 36 minutes and counting) does so because of its current manifestation.

That's not to say great things couldn't happen with an overhaul. I guess it's just hard to envision it...its size and its dynamics.

Peace.

Blooby

You said it Blooby  18 days, 12 hours and 36 minutes.  Would lose the intimacy!!

I like the Site the way it is.
Its a Great Idea but I am afraid
that the Site will Lose something that is so Great
IMO
JIM

I've not been around much lately due to work and other things (broke my fretting hand and then had to have it re-broken because it didn't set right)...

It looks to me that digital recorders are getting MORE, not less, popular.

If any change needs to be made, I'd vote for going back to the old way of uploading mp3.

Just my 2 cents...

This site started out as Microrecorders.org as far as I know. The expansion that took place when it renamed to BossBR.net wasn't changing things much, but it was a change in focus. The spirit of the site didn't change tho', but I'm afraid that opening up for all kind of other recorders will. Let's imagine having 20 Boskos and Pinedogs here. .... and know I do love their music!! and see them as a huge asset to our community ... but opening up to all kind of recorders will mean we will get a completely different focus here. There is only one MicroBR, (ok I know there are other 4-track recording devices out there) and I think that what makes this site exciting is that the fact that due to the limitations on our recording device the focus is on the music we make. We can posts rough takes of our songs and know that there is no pressure in getting it sound like it was recorded in a professional studio (tho some here come pretty close to that).

I'm not saying that this couldn't continue even with an expansion, but I can't see how , especially if we merge all the "post-your-work" into one board. I'm afraid the bar will be raised and that some of us will be more reluctant to post our work.

We already have the "other recorders" section so the site isn't restricted to just Boss products as it is now.

My vote is on keeping it as it is.

Perhaps an exercise that could be accomplished while Admin decides the future of the Forum, (possibly undertaken by 64gs), is to delete all the Memberships which haven't been accessed for say 6 months. At least then it could seen just how many active Members there are, for truth be told, what are the numbers realistically? A hard-core of say 50 active/posting Members. (I don't include myself among these BTW). Then there is the 2nd tier of posters/lurkers (I'm here), and then there are those who, for whatever reason, sign-up, post once, and disappear. It seems that the people who remain here do so because they like what they find.
I'm wholeheartedly in agreement with those who are questioning the assumption that Dig-Mtrks are losing popularity.
I do think that for the sake of clarity, that whatever direction the Forum is to take, should be formulated with some speed, then this seemingly constant topsy-turvy is settled for good.

I think this site is great the way it is. I came here from 64's BR site, where I really didn't participate much, and only shared a couple songs. I was initally attracted to this site because of the talent I heard and the ease of uploading .mp3s. I feel people have a connection here because of the medium they use to record and that is what ties everyone together.

Mind you - there is a definite tilt toward the MBR side of things, and that's okay because that is the device that most members seem to have. "Majority rules". I know it is frustrating for people who post their work on the other boards to not have as many "hits" on their posts, but maybe there is another way around this and make their work more visible. (maybe one "music" board with meta-tags on posts to show the genre/recording device so users can filter content?).

I think that there are probably already plenty of song sharing boards out there, but this community has a great "vibe" to it. This community is diverse, helpful, encouraging and open-minded.

The mix of talent on this board allows people to be more "open" to share their music. There is no pressure or "contest" atmosphere here. This is proven by the comments from "shredders" on "country/folk" songwriters work and vice-versa. Beginners can beneit from the wealth of knowledge shared by the more experienced members here, and the "seasoned" musicians benefit from getting exposure and knowing they may have encouraged someone to pursue their "dreams".

I agree - it is hard to keep with all of the new music being posted, so maybe some type of separation of music and technical questions is in order.

One last thought. Has anyone ever approached Roland about helping to sponsor this site and provide hosting space? Are they even aware of our existence?
I am sure the music posted on this site has persuaded more than a few people to buy or upgrade to a new BR recorder. It might limit the type of language/content that is sometimes posted here, but there could also be some benefits to a partnership (or silent partnership?).

Whatever you decide, I will still come to this site because of the people that support it (and my music).

P.S. - If digital recorders are "dying out" then that sucks, 'cause I'm just starting to figure out how to "rock" this thing.  ;D


Sorry for the long post...

 - Vann

Hi,

I'm fairly new to this site but I have already posted a couple of songs and felt the encouragement from those who have given me comments.  I love watching the count rise on a daily basis as people view my posts and possibly have a listen to what I've done.

I don't think this site should change.  I'm still learning how to use my mbr so I monitor the questions that others are asking and I always find the advice helpful.  I never would have found all the other tools, such as the drum arranger, without this site.  

I can understand the argument for merging the song upload board BUT if that were to happen I would like us to keep identifyig the machine we used to record our music.  I also like it when people identify what instruments or other machines and software have been used because that helps me learn about how others construct their work.

I do not access any other web sites like this one.  This is it.  I have a look every day at lunchtime and sometimes at night like I am doing now.  I used to be addicted to cyclingnews.com (I am a bike rider) but now I have spread the addiction to this site.

I also have wondered about the Roland angle.  I suspect that they know about this site and that some of you are actually Roland people.  But I don't care.  I think they should leave the site alone until the day it looks like it might fall over.  Then they should email admin and offer him some support.

There you go.

Ian

A long post Vann...but very well thought out and shared with a caring and concerned tone of one who really enjoys the "uniqueness" of this site. I have been on OMD's (Online Music Distributors) sites for 5 years now. The web is full of them...just off the top of my head...Soundclick, Indie Music Works, Reverb nation, Independent Artists Company, Song Planet, Mixposure...and on and on. SC has almost 4 million users..and MySpace Music with 10's of millions. HUGE sites with way more bells and whistles. They all have their place i guess. I joined the original Mixposure in it's infancy and it was like this place...a great community of peaceful, open minded supportive artists from multiple genres. As it grew, it maintained that somehow...but alas fell prey to hackers (so they said..or was it financial debt?) and irresponsible leadership. Change is good...but change just for the sake of change puts you on thin ice. Personally speaking, i love it here because we all share the same BR ingredient. Streamlining the site is a good plan and on site mp3 hosting was also nice. Is there a financial issue here? Would people pay to belong here? Bigger is clearly not always better. Quality over quantity anyday for me. BIG is out there if you want it. Places like this are not. I am not opposed to progress and like SteveB feels, i'm not here enough to really have a big say(or any, for that matter) I just know that this place has a "sanctuary" feel to it for me and it's due mostly to the fact that the folks here are genuine, kind, supportive, open minded, and all share their love of multitrack Boss recorders. Boss should clearly at least acknowledge this site, but in my experience, they are blind to all that. If ADMIN wants to get fancy, lets have individual artist pages and if necessary, have a vote on a nominal fee to keep the site up and running for us all to enjoy. Opening the site up to the general recording public has no positive benefits that i can think of. I'm all for making this place "deluxe", but BR's are the thread that weave the cloth of this community. I would vote to keep it that way.

Here is my three penneth
As a regular user there are several key reasons I'm here
The first and most important thing is that it is a community
The key word being community in my opinion the commonality of us all recording music on the BR binds us together unlike loads of other forums which just have music in common...........There is a real camaraderie here that you don't find on bigger sites

So would like us to stick with our current format but with the MP3 facility back and post your MP3 as one section

Quote from: 48 on December 11, 2009, 08:46:11 AMThe first and most important thing is that it is a community
The key word being community in my opinion the commonality of us all recording music on the BR binds us together unlike loads of other forums which just have music in common………..There is a real camaraderie here that you don’t find on bigger sites

So would like us to stick with our current format but with the MP3 facility back and post your MP3 as one section

I am still new here but I agree about the camaraderie as I have sensed it here amongst the the members in my short time around this place. There are many sites out there in cyber-land where you don't get that community type feel.

I am a long-time member of a huge and growing site that started from the ground up but has still maintained that camaraderie throughout it's growth. I don't see why this site couldn't do the same(while growing)as long as there are members like yourselves who support it.

Yes, I'm all for the MP3 upload function also and can someone tell me where the bar is 'round here?  ;D

Thanks for all the feedback.

Based on my understanding of your posts and my idea, I'm going to post my opinion regarding your doubts:

The sense of community and uniqueness will be lost
I feel that the sense of community is so strong in here that it will not be lost or diluted. This a thing that comes from the core people of our community, not the forum format or theme. I honestly think that this is never going to be lost.

People would stop coming here to search for Boss recorders
All the information regarding the recorders would be merged in a section and would still be searched by people. Everyone would still be able to start a thread and get support for their recorder. The thing that got us together will continue to do so.

I have been looking to other hosting servers which are faster and are real (and completely upgradable) in their storage limits so the MP3 feature return is a possibility.

I'm very excited by the idea. Imagine a portal with a whole new world of music discussions, lessons, blogs and columns, etc... But with the same feeling of community that makes us different from the other places on the net.

I don't know if I'm explaining the idea well.

Howdy, i too discovered the site by looking for recorders etc, i think you have a good idea but the "whole new world of music discussions, lessons, blogs and columns, etc..." pretty much exists already, right here!!

maybe just a merge of the separate threads might be nice. i.e no more mirco br, br600, br900, br1200 and other recorders sections. just a place where people can post regardless of their recorder.
though as i (and others) have said. what you have here is pretty awesome as it is!

michael

hey pedro have i told you lately that i love you.

QuoteBigger is clearly not always better. Quality over quantity anyday for me. BIG is out there if you want it. Places like this are not.

Well said.

Hmmm.....  Yes there are many doubts  And there are other communites out there!  And  I am here because I choose to be.  Being almost the only female these guys all treat me fairly and are like brothers to me.  Yes you have gotten a lot of feedback! I have been here almost a year.  And this only the second major issue I have seen! The other being the uploading of MP3's!!  Which our thoughts were over ruled there also.  I am sure you will do what you want regardless.  I hope to hang around as I would miss everyone here.  But if it gets to unfriendly and to big I, for one, will move on!!!

ehehe..love the Micro House! Goodbye utility bills!


Pedro, i'd like to know just what it is you envision. If you could wave a wand, what would you do with this site?

Some important points have been raised which I very much agree with:

• People find this site while searching for information on their Boss recorder. Although the "Post your MP3" section is the most popular feature of the site, I doubt that anyone found the site while searching for somewhere to post their songs. BR support is the primary initial attraction to this site.
• What we all love about this site is the sense of community. I think this is largely due to the small number of posting members. It allows us to get to know each other and make friends. A big increase in the number of posting members would diminish this sense of community.

There are pros and cons to expanding the site. More members means more interesting discussions, song posts and potential collaborators. But, realistically, most members will not have the time to read all of the posts and many great posts will be missed. Opening the site to everyone, regardless of the recording hardware or software they use, means that the site will lose its identity as a BR support site. So, chances are that people Googling "Micro BR" or "BR-600" will not find this site. Or, if they do, their first impression might be that it's not for them as it seems to be too all-encompassing and they're looking for something more BR-specific.

Currently, the focus of the site is divided between BR Support and Song Posting. Really, these are two separate things. For song posting, I think it makes little difference which recorder or DAW was used to create the song. So, my first thought was that you could create a separate site for general Music/Songwriting (regardless of recorder) and leave BossBR.net as a BR-specific support site, moving all current song posts to the new Music/Songwriting site. However, after thinking about it a bit longer, I realised that it would probably destroy the sense of community that we currently enjoy, so maybe it's not a good idea.

I believe that the sense of community will be diminished as the number of posting members grows. However, membership growth is inevitable, whether the site is expanded or not. So we need to find ways to limit the number of posts we need to read each day. That's a very difficult thing to do. We don't want to miss any important or interesting topics, yet we don't have time to read everything, so something has got to be filtered out. The difficulty is in determining the criteria for that filtering. I think that filtering based on BR model is a mistake because all of the BRs are basically the same and we can learn a lot from each other. And, as someone else pointed out, one of the great things about this site is the variety of musical styles - rock, folk, jazz, country, and more. So I don't think filtering on musical genre would be a good idea. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I do think that I'd have different criteria for song posts than I would for the rest of the site. Also, I think it might help if there were separate "unread messages" lists for song posts and the rest of the site. Which leads me back to my idea of two separate sites for BR Support and Music/Songwriting. I don't know. This requires a lot more thought.

I'm not sure if a "fully featured Music/Songwriting community" that's open to everyone, regardless of their recording hardware/software of choice, is a good idea or not. But if you decide to go ahead with it, I hope that you will consider creating a separate site for it and leaving BossBR.net either as it is now or at least as a BR support-only site (ie; everything except song posting). I think it would be a mistake to expand the current site into an all-encompassing music/songwriting site because it would lose its BR identity and its sense of community. But creating a separate site would allow you to try your idea without changing BossBR.net. And maybe you could defer your decision about moving BossBR.net song posts to the new site until a few months after it's started. That will give you more time to think about it and see how things go with the new site.

Finally, I agree with everyone who said they'd like to see all of the "Post your MP3" boards combined into a single board. The number of posts in the non-MicroBR boards is pretty small, so it won't greatly affect the total number of unread posts for Micro BR owners. And it will ensure that everyone's songs get a fair chance, regardless of which BR they use. Instead of separate boards for each model, we can simply ask that everyone state in their post which model they used. I'd also like to see the General Discussion boards for each model merged into a single board, as I've said before (see this message (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=26.msg28636#msg28636)).

i agree with pretty much of everything you said 64, i know a few of us hark back to the "good old days" when you could keep up with all the posts lol, bin a long time since i could do that, the site has grown and will continue to grow and we still have that community spirit, back in the day it was like a little village where everyone knew each other, now i feel its like a small town, where you know most people but cant always remember their names, but its a nice town to visit. maybe in the future it will be a nice city to visit with its own little suburbs et al.

Okay, my 2-cents worth...  ;)

The music café that has evolved here does seem to have become the hub of activity whether by design or not.  I have participated in on-line home-recording forums for over 10 years and this beats them all by miles in terms of the talented musicians, good-vibe with community attitude, and all around quality people. 

I wouldn't mind seeing the categorizing of posts by BR models go away one way or another.  However, I hope that all song posts would not get thrown together into one big MP3 pile-up.  It's already gotten 'bad' enough in the Micro BR Post Your MP3 section where a new song can get posted and eventually crowded off  Page 1 on the same day. And it's probably not too unusual for lazy folks like me to not often look much beyond the first page since there is already more going on here than I can keep up with anyway. 

I think it might be good to have separate 'Stages' for MP3 performances. At least, some way to keep all the traffic from piling up in one place. For example, something such as:

* COVER SONGS - We all know what that means. (Love 'em!)   

* ORIGINAL SONGS - When someone posts a recording of an originally written and produced song, something has taken place that is a clear step beyond recording a cover song. I think it would be fitting for original songs to be appreciated in a context specific to that. 

* SONGS THAT USE BACKING TRACKS  - Sure, it's an art form too and some folks here excel at it.  However, I don't think recordings that utilize professionally recorded backers (usually uncredited) should be on the same stage where members of the community (us amateurs) are playing all the parts.

* OPEN MIC -  Usually a singer-guitarist recording a one-take performance 'live' whether at the pub or at home in the shower. That way these solo performances won't be sandwiched in-between somebody else's full-blown multi-track productions.

* OPEN MIC FOR THE BAND - You know, like Blooby's great stuff.


It gets said, but never enough... Pedro, you are a star for what you have created and are maintaining here.  I hope that the phenomenal growth of this community will continue to bring you much satisfaction and encouragement in return for what you put into it.  Thank you, thank you, thank you!  :)

With humble best regards,
Hooper 

 

what ken said i second that

QuoteSo we need to find ways to limit the number of posts we need to read each day. That's a very difficult thing to do. We don't want to miss any important or interesting topics, yet we don't have time to read everything, so something has got to be filtered out.

I was gonna give a big reply to this, but Ken beat me to it. I pretty much agree with everything he said to this!.

QuoteAlso, I think it might help if there were separate "unread messages" lists for song posts and the rest of the site.

What would be really useful was a way of listing only new postings of songs. I would like to keep the two unread options we have, as I use both extensively but an option of listing only new postings in the "post-your.." boards would be a really helpful feature!


I'm still a bit worried that the posts will be more "professional" if we open up for all the other recorders out there, especially if we also open for DAW recordings. I think we at least should limit it to stand-alone multitrack-recorders. The reason for my worry of course is that some will feel reluctant to post .... 

Well, I'm gonna stick around anyway, and let's all make it our task to keep the good spirit and friendliness going, no matter what the site looks like!

I found this place whilst researching the MBR and BR-600, and without the excellent tutorials, would have had a far harder / longer learning curve. However, I do think there is a special 'glue' on here that binds us together that transcends Boss or any other brand. I think this place works because we're all pretty much in the same boat... i.e. all trying to record music at home on our respective digital devices. This means we all face the same issues, can thrive on the same ideas and tips, and are all at a certain level in our musical development. I think the community would suffer if we opened up to songwriting on a wider level, as there could be studio-recorded stuff vying for attention with the rest of our 'amateur' efforts. A 'home recorded' rule could get around this.

Echoing some other comments, it's already hard keeping up on here. Any significant growth would almost certainly impact on the sense of community, and even potentially drive some of the biggest participants away.

I don't know what the right answer is, or even if there is one. I just wouldn't want to see the great spirit of this place get dissolved all in the name of progress. I guess most of us will stick around whatever though!

Quote from: Blooby on December 10, 2009, 06:04:22 PMWhile I understand and respect your motivations, the thought of the site ultimately getting larger makes me anxious about the loss of a community-feel. Anybody who has spent an inordinate amount of time on this site (14 Days 6 Hours 36 minutes and counting) does so because of its current manifestation.

That's not to say great things couldn't happen with an overhaul. I guess it's just hard to envision it...its size and its dynamics.

Peace.

Blooby

I totaly agree!  It is hard enough to keep up with all the music in this forum - we have more than just the MicroBR owners -granted the majority has the MBR.  I have an account in soundclick and reverbnation, but have decided to just keep track of this forum --- i tried to follow the soundclick forum and non of my inquiries were answered - so it seems that the BR forum for me is darn good the way it is - and it has kept things very positive, which i need on a daily basis.

This forum landed on my lap by way of Kody Hess (from Nebraska) - I got together with him and his Dad before moving to Alaska for one more jam --- one thing led to another and i asked him what he was using for recording => BR900, which I purchase and he led me to this site...


I think that if a particular BR forum member wants to exchange music/information outside this forum - that's even better => as i think that whatever is learned or exchanged may make it to this forum.

Quote from: hooper on December 11, 2009, 06:36:54 PMI think it might be good to have separate 'Stages' for MP3 performances. At least, some way to keep all the traffic from piling up in one place. For example, something such as:

* COVER SONGS - We all know what that means. (Love 'em!)    

* ORIGINAL SONGS - When someone posts a recording of an originally written and produced song, something has taken place that is a clear step beyond recording a cover song. I think it would be fitting for original songs to be appreciated in a context specific to that.  

* SONGS THAT USE BACKING TRACKS  - Sure, it's an art form too and some folks here excel at it.  However, I don't think recordings that utilize professionally recorded backers (usually uncredited) should be on the same stage where members of the community (us amateurs) are playing all the parts.

* OPEN MIC -  Usually a singer-guitarist recording a one-take performance 'live' whether at the pub or at home in the shower. That way these solo performances won't be sandwiched in-between somebody else's full-blown multi-track productions.

* OPEN MIC FOR THE BAND - You know, like Blooby's great stuff.

If you do anything, let this be the thing that gets changed, lets support our whole BR community, the quirky bunch that we are, bring all the BR machines together in the breakdown that Hooper suggested.  That is all I want to see, thats my opinion.  I have so little time for this place lately that I am missing all the great music posted lately, I try as I can to listen and comment, but it is hard with all the different spots for all the different machines.  Bring them all together under one roof.  We BR users must stand together and learn our craft from each other, and go forth and become musicians and songwriters together.  This site means a lot to me, before I found this place I was nothing more than a bedroom blues guitar noodler, playing along to backers, over and over.  This site got me writing songs, trying out musical styles I never dreamed of, singing (what a huge accomplishment that was, thanks for the support everyone), colabing with very cool folks all over the world.  I love this site dearly.  I feel like a real musician, guitarist, songwriter, developing singer, and developing keyboardist because of this site.  Lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.  Lets make sure the change is what is needed.  What is needed is the merge of all BR machines, I am not too sure about the rest, But I will keep an open mind.

Quote from: Geir on December 12, 2009, 03:25:10 AMI'm still a bit worried that the posts will be more "professional" if we open up for all the other recorders out there, especially if we also open for DAW recordings. I think we at least should limit it to stand-alone multitrack-recorders. The reason for my worry of course is that some will feel reluctant to post ....  

I agree with Geir here.  There is something very unique about the guy who is recording using a stand-alone, studio-in-a-box machine like our beloved BR machines.  It is possible to have so much studio gear nowadays, the whole DAW thing is endless and can be very expensive, but you can have literally studio quality gear and recordings with that stuff.  We BR folks have chosen to limit our gear to the bare minimum and to use it to its full potential to squeeze every drop out of these.  And we end up making some pretty darn good music, but it takes more work and creativity and fiddling around.  Our focus is more on the music and songcraft than recording details.  There are lots of other sites that are geared to home recording, and they are very DAW oriented.  I joined one of these a while age and when I mentioned I use a BR-1200 I was literally sneered at by the group, these guys are serious about their gear.  They are chasing after setting up home studios that would rival the real studios.  I posted a song of mine on their post your work section (they call it "Bash this recording") and all the comments I got back were about how I recorded it, how to improve recording, drums were very fake sounding, should layer the vocals more, guitars were not recorded as clean as possible, etc, nothing about the song itself, how it made them feel, did they like the song, etc.  It felt all very cold and clinical, and not too friendly.  I haven't posted another song on there since because it was no fun posting to this site.  Sure I can learn a whole lot about recording from these guys, but it was so smug and technical and downright non-friendly.  This site is simply the best there is for posting songs, getting real, positive feedback, about the music first, I haven't found another site as geared towards the sheer joy of making music as this one.  I believe it is because of the certain kind of person that buys a BR machine (back to my original thought here).  We are musicians/songwriters first, recording engineers second.  The $$$ DAW guys tend to be recording engineers first, musicians/songwriters second.  We want to make music, write original songs, play blues backers, make covers, experiment with sound, make silly songs, all as simply and easily as possible, focusing on the music first, the recording technicalities second.  We end up making really good sounding recordings because of the quality of these great Boss machines.  Our recordings would not pass the grade in these $$$$ DAW sites, not professional enough I'm afraid, but for us folks on here we are loving our recordings, we are getting real music out in the world for other friendly, like-minded folks to hear and appreciate.  If we have all these $$$ DAW guys in here, we would be flooded by a totally different kind of mindset where recording technique is way more important that the music being produced.  We do it the other way around here, the music itself is the most important part of the equation.  We don't want to loose that.

"" from BB "the music itself is the most important part of the equation.  We don't want to loose that."

If there is a vote, I would like to keep the set up the way it is!!! 

If there was any searching for a better system for this forum I would like to devote time to bringing back the easy download process for mp3's...  Although the new downloading procedures works well and it allows for bigger files (> 5 megs) like when using soundclick - it was a bit easier to just come to the site and bamm just download it.  But, i know we already went down this path under a different discussion!?  And it seems to be working alright with the new downloading system.

I think it is great the way it is!  Although there is a lot of music and good postings/answers and tips, and hard at times to keep up --- we have the bumpers that will bump a song/ answers and tips that will make it available to a few more souls in this forum --- i try to keep up with most all the BR units in this forum - and some folks will even send me an e-mail or facebook it w/ a link to a new song - like getting a well meant warm embrace @ the end of a long day - so we seem to care for each other and have formed cyber-friendships...

Anyay, i need to finish up a design for work - so back to listening to my br forum saved music and back to the grindstone.

For a better perspective I will detail my idea of the portal:

Design:

Wider design
 - Wider design but with the same colors and overall format.

Board organization
 - A new board organization refocused on music.

Functionality:

Listen to all the songs by this user mod.
 - A link in each profile pops-up on a new window and plays all the users songs in a neat playlist from the most recent song to the older. If you press on each song with the right mouse button there is a link that goes to that song topic so you can comment immediately!

5 most recent songs in the community
 - This will display in the portal homepage, this would cover all the finished songs by any user.

Show unheard song topics
 - This would display next to the Show all unread topics link.

PM MP3's attachments
 - For easier collaborations.

View all MP3's of a topic in one page
 - For the collaborations board.

Calendar and Recent festivals
 - This would be placed in the portal and allow for a better tracking of the festivals. Birthdays and other events can also be input.

Shoutbox
 - I think it's cool for chatting.

Newsletter with songs, news and other stuff
 - A monthly newsletter with some random songs from that month, news about festivals, stuff like that.

Other cool new features you suggest

All these features are pretty much finished, since most of them I have been working for some time. These are features that immensely ease the process of listening and commenting songs so the problem of navigating each song and posting will take less time.

This looks very interesting Pedro, it may be really cool.  Sounds like you have been doing a lot of thinking and work on this.

Adm et al - Yep, some pertinent comments hereabouts. So, a pertinent question: Will there be a subscription-element to the re-vamped site, or will advertising be increased?

Quote from: admin on December 12, 2009, 08:52:13 AMWider design
 - Wider design but with the same colors and overall format.

Can you make the width user-configurable in the user's Profile? Some members may be using smaller monitors or even handheld devices such as mobile phones and a wider page may mean a lot of scrolling. But if you offered several width choices in the user Profile, each user could select the width that works best for them.

QuoteListen to all the songs by this user mod.
 - A link in each profile pops-up on a new window and plays all the users songs in a neat playlist from the most recent song to the older. If you press on each song with the right mouse button there is a link that goes to that song topic so you can comment immediately!

YES!!!

Quote5 most recent songs in the community
 - This will display in the portal homepage, this would cover all the finished songs by any user.

Yes, that's a great idea! However, I'd prefer that the number of songs could be configured by the user in their Profile rather than having it fixed at 5.

QuoteShow unheard song topics
 - This would display next to the Show all unread topics link.

PM MP3's attachments
 - For easier collaborations.

View all MP3's of a topic in one page
 - For the collaborations board.

Calendar and Recent festivals
 - This would be placed in the portal and allow for a better tracking of the festivals. Birthdays and other events can also be input.

Shoutbox
 - I think it's cool for chatting.

Newsletter with songs, news and other stuff
 - A monthly newsletter with some random songs from that month, news about festivals, stuff like that.

Other cool new features you suggest

All these features are pretty much finished, since most of them I have been working for some time. These are features that immensely ease the process of listening and commenting songs so the problem of navigating each song and posting will take less time.

All good ideas. I look forward to seeing this.

Personally, I'm not interested in chatting, although I know that others are. Perhaps a checkbox in the Profile could allow members to opt out of chat? And maybe an icon to the left of each message to indicate whether the member chooses to be a "chatter" or not.

Quote from: 64Guitars on December 12, 2009, 09:27:26 AMCan you make the width user-configurable in the user's Profile? Some members may be using smaller monitors or even handheld devices such as mobile phones and a wider page may mean a lot of scrolling. But if you offered several width choices in the user Profile, each user could select the width that works best for them.

Yes, can be made. But the max widht is 1000px, so it would work with 1024*768. Users with 800*640 would have to scroll though.

QuoteYes, that's a great idea! However, I'd prefer that the number of songs could be configured by the user in their Profile rather than having it fixed at 5.

That is not default and I don't know if is easy or not to do.

QuotePersonally, I'm not interested in chatting, although I know that others are. Perhaps a checkbox in the Profile could allow members to opt out of chat? And maybe an icon to the left of each message to indicate whether the member chooses to be a "chatter" or not.

All users can choose to see or not the shoutbox.

Pedro, you are a programming genius and between you and Sargeant 64, i think it's safe to say that the new model will be excellent. Do you intend to keep membership here free?
  What a great Christmas present!  :o

Quote from: Pinedog on December 12, 2009, 09:48:21 AMPedro, you are a programming genius and between you and Sargeant 64, i think it's safe to say that the new model will be excellent. Do you intend to keep membership here free?
  What a great Christmas present!  :o

That is a good question.

In my opinion the best way to maintain a project like this and to ensure continuity while balancing things is to allow for a subscription for those that want to have a greater usage of the server resources and enable ads for those that don't.

This is what I was thinking:

Membergroup	Posts required	Songs allowed to post	See ads
Newbie	0  posts	10 MB (or 2 songs)	Yes
Jr. Member	50 posts	25 MB (or 5 songs)	Yes
Full Member	100 posts	50 MB (or 10 songs)	Yes
Sr. Member	250 posts	75 MB (or 15 songs)	Yes
Hero Member	500 posts	100 MB (or 20 songs)	Yes
Unlimited Member	Subscription of $30 per year	Unlimited songs + other goodies	No

Notes: The ads would be small and not in posts. The songs could be managed, meaning that you could delete one and add another, maintaining the song limit.

This would ensure that new users post more feedback on other people songs before they post more of their songs and a balance in terms of expenses.

What do you think? Do you think it's fair?

I took a lil'break --- I think what you have proposed looks darn good!

But, are you going to open it up to everyone out there?  or is it going to be primarily geared towards the BR users and friends?

I definetly do not want any adds!!!

Also, could we change the size/song from 5 megs?  and just use the total megs/member group?

Back to work - i go!!!

is that 20 songs in total or per month, regards a subscription, i dont think there are many models that have a large subscription base, i think you would raise more having a paypal donation button, starting to get very worried now re restrictions on posting

QuoteAlso, could we change the size/song from 5 megs?  and just use the total megs/member group?

I think I understand, that would allow the user to post a song larger than 5 MB, right?

Quote from: oldrottenhead on December 12, 2009, 12:00:38 PMis that 20 songs in total or per month, regards a subscription, i dont think there are many models that have a large subscription base, i think you would raise more having a paypal donation button, starting to get very worried now re restrictions on posting

That would be total (100 MB is about thirty-three 3-minute songs and twenty 5-minute songs), regarding the subscription I basically took the example from guitarblast.com, which seems to be around for years. Basically, the subscription is a donation which allows for more features but more directed to the users that actually make more use of server resources, making things more fair.

even more worried now. i'm a worrier.

What if you don't use this as the host. And you want to continue to stream from somewhere else. So there is little storage how would that play into this?

was thinking that myself pj.

Quote from: wiley on December 12, 2009, 12:53:25 PMWhat if you don't use this as the host. And you want to continue to stream from somewhere else. So there is little storage how would that play into this?

In that case you could post how many songs as your host allows. The disadvantage is that it wouldn't be possible to use those songs with most of the scripts I posted above, for example the mega playlist or the recent songs. But that would be totally possible.

I'm with you ORH I am a worrier!!  I just spent $50 to have my own web site just to store songs and to stream here as I couldn't find a decent place. And spent over a week relinking everything so if things started getting deleted it would work. And now if things change none of it will work anyway?   I guess I am computer illiterate for sure. Will just have to wait and see! And yes worry more.

If a member has X number of songs on site, do you intend to create individual artist pages where they will be kept?

Quote from: Pinedog on December 12, 2009, 01:16:35 PMIf a member has X number of songs on site, do you intend to create individual artist pages where they will be kept?

Yes, the MP3's are listed in the Profile of each user.

Wiley, brought up a really good point which I intended to avoid like the plague. I too spent money, but more importantly an incredible amount of time creating a hosting option for regular members here.

 I pissed a few people off in the process, by making a "no reply" rule for my site in order to push people back to our primary site (here).

Point being, I spent about 90 hours of my time, and money so others would not have to. This came about as a result of the last change to the site.

Personally, I post 1 song a month. I'm not a skilled musician, I'm a beginner. I know  I can post a crappy song here and get good feedback because those who reply to my posts, have known and followed my development as a musician. In a couple years I may be Bluesberry Junior, who knows. As of now, if this community opens up I probably will not post my work for multiple reasons, 2nd page woes, people unfamiliar with my journey, etc.

I said before we dropped hosting that I would be happy to contribute financially. I stayed true to my word and made that financial obligation happen, although it wasn't directly to the site, it was to support the site.

The first of November would have been a much better time to address this idea, or wait another 6 months.

 

what about collaborations like jemima's kite

If/when the site is re-vamped, are all Members returned to ground zero re posts? i.e. Zero posts.

Merely asking, because if money is to be exchanged for Membership, then some will feel that a level-playing-field/fresh-start-for-all is the fairest way to start the new site.

I'm sorry for those of you who have spent money, especially you Tony, with your cool forum in which the only purpose was to backup this community. I made a bad move, I think this idea is what I should have suggested in the first place, like you said. But I want to make things better now and easier to use now and I believe in this model. Like I said, for those that have an external offsite backup you can still use it with no limitations except the fact that those songs will not be indexed on the playlist.

Hi Pedro, I missed this thread - probably because I'm too busy and I don't get to read stuff on here like I used to.

I just want to let you know that this is the only board that I subscribe to. I have tried the Bass guitar boards, synth boards and I have even used boards for work purposes. This is the only one that I keep coming back to time and time again.

It's the people. I feel that I know the people who post here, some very well, some less so, but I feel that I can post anything and have serious comments back from people like me, who love to play and listen to music. It's not about the recording medium, although like many have said, it is what brought us here in the first place, it's about the community.

If this board became impersonal I would be very disappointed indeed. I can understand why you would like to expand it and if it could be done without losing that friendly atmosphere and the collection of lovely, quirky, funny people that you have attracted I would continue to support it.

Change is always a worrying thing. Could I make a suggestion? Keep this board and start a new one, making links across the two?


MBR changed my life, I started playing live again after 30 years of not doing so. I have remembered how it feels to play music with other people, I have met new friends and I have you and this community to thank for that. So this is my impassioned plea, please please please keep the atmosphere. I would rather post my music elsewhere as we do at the moment than see what you have created become diminished.

Microrecorders was an inspired site, bossbr.net was a good upgrade. It ain't broke in my opinion. I don't think it needs fixing.

pedro you ultimately created this community, the love for each other here is strong. I do trust your judgement on this issue, and I am onboard for whatever the future brings. Flash, great post

sorry for the bumps

I'm confused... worried and confused. I know nothing can last forever, but it feels like the golden age has passed, and that the empire is starting to crumble. Maybe it's just because I've read SteveG's post (which totally depressed and left me in disbelief), or maybe it's because I'm a 'glass half empty' depressive. Either way, I worry for how this will all turn out and who will be left when the dust settles.

I always thought Boss were somehow in the shadows behind this site. As a marketer, I know the value of having a concentrated super-user group and brand evangelists gathered in one place. This forum has big value to them if they recognise that we're the ones who can shift units and make everyone brand-loyal. So I'm surprised that they don't have an interest / financial investment to make to keep this place ticking over. Either that, or they've lost whatever interest they had in us. I was also worried by Pedro's comments that digital recording is on the wane. Where did that bit of news come from?! As far as I can see, digital recorders will just get better and more advanced, and us users will just get more for our money. But are we going to stop recording? I very much doubt it.

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.

I just want to say thanks to involved for such a great " sand box " to play in.

This board is very well run and in addition to the tech knowledge available, a great community of people who truly seem to appreciate friendly support of the varied levels of musicians expressing themselves.

Clearly there is a divide between the " tech " aspects with this community and the " artist " side, and it is the artist side where the community lies. From a logistical standpoint, the " BR " series of recorders will have a limited lifetime of usage, as most any other piece of technology - Walkman's, VHS, Tube Teles, all come to mind in this respect. 

The BRs are recording appliances and someday will be replaced with other devices.  With this in mind, albeit that perhaps tech knowledge may be what drew us here at first, its the community that keeps us coming back. With this in mind I believe the while the area of tech knowledge should still be there, support should revolve more around the reason we all have recorders - the end result - music.

A model that I think would have viability would be a HUB and Spoke Model.  The Hub being a " Listening Room " where regardless of the method to record, all would be able to post /  participate.  The Spokes would be more to support the tech aspect of each of the recorders, for that matter it would not have to be just Boss / Roland products that have a dedicated section.

I've seen other boards hit this type of impasse - at what point is does running a board move past being a passion / hobby to being at the very least economic viable.  If there is anything that gets my blood pressure up its when I hear " They Should do XYZ " from people who don't contribute to a cause. 

I refrained from posting my views initially to allow others viewpoints to be heard.  I'm a true believer that you need to support the things you want to be well done.  Be it a subscription or the addition of banner type advertisement, or a combination of there or other ways to keep the quality of the board and the community, I would gladly support it.

Again, thanks to all who provide, support and contribute to a great place.

Thanks for the feedback.

Although I understand why, I didn't expect this feedback, especially with the new features I posted before. But I can't hide that I strongly believe that this is going to work. Think about the great music and people we are losing by limiting the participation users with digital recorders.

It's not like anything is wrong with our community, it's the completely way around, everything is great and that is the reason we should open our community to everyone.

Let's try this way:

At the end of today's day, Sunday, 14th December, the website will be down and I will launch the new BETA website portal, so that you can test it. If it is really not pleasing, I will roll back to the original version. What do you think?

ADM - Is that GMT or another time-zone designation?
Good luck by the way.

Yes, about 20:00 GMT, the website will be in maintenance mode and I will be working on the portal.

It seems that this is very important to you Pedro, you created this site and maintained it through its infancy with your hard work, I trust in your judgement.  I say go for it, lets see what it will look/feel like playing in the bigger sandbox.  Whatever it comes out looking like, the die-hards on here will still be around and keep this place thriving I believe.  On to the future...

Can I have a place to post my Booby pic's please?




(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QcA4fu77-QQ/R1RmIfvOw6I/AAAAAAAABik/tMkbsTswIQ4/s1600-R/lgpp30387%2Bbreasts-helping-men-avoid-eye-contact-since-1865-retro-spoofs-poster.jpg)

Quote from: osckilo on December 13, 2009, 11:41:08 AMCan I have a place to post my Booby pic's please?

You're not going to bring up the 3-D interactive chat room again, are you?

Quote from: Blooby on December 13, 2009, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: osckilo on December 13, 2009, 11:41:08 AMCan I have a place to post my Booby pic's please?

You're not going to bring up the 3-D interactive chat room again, are you?

Now you mention it......  :)