Hi all,
Maybe this topic excist but I couldn't find it.
I was wondering, many of you put some own ideas or even complete songs
on this great forum.
In case you did not plagiarismed (?) by yourself, and it is really your own idea and creativity, is that a 'solid evidence' that this is your work?
Not that I've such briljant ideas but for example Cold Play, Madonna or another big star hears one of your songs and uses it and makes millions.
With other words, is our work protected.
Regards,
Alex
Found a link regarding copyrighting (https://songcrafters.org/forum/general-discussion-b8/song-registration-copyright/0/)
And another one here (https://songcrafters.org/forum/micro-br/copyright-(-what-to-do-)/0/)
Quote from: lexman on July 27, 2009, 06:37:39 AMIn case you did not plagiarismed (?) by yourself, and it is really your own idea and creativity, is that a 'solid evidence' that this is your work?
Not that I've such briljant ideas but for example Cold Play, Madonna or another big star hears one of your songs and uses it and makes millions.
I think of this once in a while - some of these cases seem clearcut to me - Very surprised with Cold Play ripping off Satriani(Not a Cold Play fan anyway), and Foo Fighters with Journey (Stone in Love was a staple in my early teens - Clearcut in my opinion)
Most of us have all done this before - It must be subliminal. I have actually caught myself and had to ditch a song once that I had worked for hours on(Not gonna say which one it was, but it was a song off Paranoid ;)) - absolute bummer...
My biggest disappointment so far though was this - Great song but it crushed me when I realized what I was hearing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1oyfG6t2ewAnyway...
Mark
was that before nirvana or after
Quote from: oldrottenhead on July 27, 2009, 08:04:05 AMwas that before nirvana or after
Seven or eight
years before Nirvana even existed. This video was made in 1984 I think.
I'm a healthy Nirvana fan, so this is slightly disappointing...
I'm a Dave Grohl fan, too(Foo Fighters, but was Nirvana's drummer..) - The Journey thing disturbs me a little bit too...
i should no that, cos i always liked killing joke but never really got nirvana till much later so was not 100% sure when nirvana came around .
I just found out about Killing Joke from Tom R and You Tubed the hell out of them yesterday - cool band.
Quote from: launched on July 27, 2009, 08:08:22 AMI'm a Dave Grohl fan, too(Foo Fighters, but was Nirvana's drummer..) - The Journey thing disturbs me a little bit too...
the journey thing?
I dont get the Killing Joke/Nirvana connection? I listened to the video, but dont get which song is supposed to be plagiarized?
And Im also a lil stumped on which Foo Fighters song sounds like "Stone In Love"?
Ive heard the Coldplay and Satriani...and I can see that, but Im scratching my head on the above mentioned two songs. ???
Jesus... I haven't heard that Killing Joke track since the eighties!!!!! That's a blatant rip-off... not just in the notes, but in the guitar tone. Never made that connection - thanks!!!!
What a great band Killing Joke were. Especially 'Love like Blood'.
It's common knowledge that Cobain ripped off 'More than a feeling' for the Teen Spirit riff, but this is something else!!!!!
Quote from: Greeny on July 27, 2009, 08:23:07 AMJesus... I haven't heard that Killing Joke track since the eighties!!!!! That's a blatant rip-off... not just in the notes, but in the guitar tone. Never made that connection - thanks!!!!
What a great band Killing Joke were. Especially 'Love like Blood'.
It's common knowledge that Cobain ripped off 'More than a feeling' for the Teen Spirit riff, but this is something else!!!!!
I know - It can really disappoint sometimes.
Sprocket, Ron - It was "Come As You Are with Nirvana" and the ending "Let it Die" with the Foo.
Quote from: Sprocket on July 27, 2009, 08:17:14 AMI dont get the Killing Joke/Nirvana connection? I listened to the video, but dont get which song is supposed to be plagiarized?
Listen to this... you may hear the connection now...!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfSfDzw0JvY
Quote from: Greeny on July 27, 2009, 08:23:07 AMWhat a great band Killing Joke were. Especially 'Love like Blood'.
I have been listening to a lot of Killing Joke lately - really good stuff!
I've had a bee in my bonnet about this since the eighties. The worst thing is that nobody believes or agrees with me (EVER!!!!). I figured it was because most people aren't 'musical' and don't have the right ear for song structures etc.
But I'm absolutely convinced that Sting / The Police absolutely ripped the buggery out of this Leo Sayer tune for 'Every Breath You Take'. They were clever about not making it obvious though. Listen to the structure though, and the middle 8....
You probably won't agree either. I just don't like Sting getting away with it :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdnEmg8RX8w'LOVE YOU MORE THAN I CAN SAY' LEO SAYER (look it up on Youtube if the player won't work)
Well, I sang some Police lyrics to this, and you are right, the progression is uncannily similar. The bass/rhythm chord changes sound very similar as well.
Hmmmmmm..... You just have to sneak into Sting's house now and see if there are any Leo Sayer albums - If there's more than a greatest hits compilation, he's nailed!!
Quote from: launched on July 27, 2009, 08:45:02 AMWell, I sang some Police lyrics to this, and you are right, the progression is uncannily similar. The bass/rhythm chord changes sound very similar as well.
Hmmmmmm..... You just have to sneak into Sting's house now and see if there are any Leo Sayer albums - If there's more than a greatest hits compilation, he's nailed!!
I'd love to tell Sting what a rip-off merchant he is! I hope it happens oneday. He probably thinks everyone has forgotten about it now, lol.
Quote from: Greeny on July 27, 2009, 08:23:07 AMJesus... I haven't heard that Killing Joke track since the eighties!!!!! That's a blatant rip-off... not just in the notes, but in the guitar tone. Never made that connection - thanks!!!!
What a great band Killing Joke were. Especially 'Love like Blood'.
It's common knowledge that Cobain ripped off 'More than a feeling' for the Teen Spirit riff, but this is something else!!!!!
Teen Spirit does not sound like Boston to me
Quote from: guitarron on July 27, 2009, 08:57:39 AMQuote from: Greeny on July 27, 2009, 08:23:07 AMJesus... I haven't heard that Killing Joke track since the eighties!!!!! That's a blatant rip-off... not just in the notes, but in the guitar tone. Never made that connection - thanks!!!!
What a great band Killing Joke were. Especially 'Love like Blood'.
It's common knowledge that Cobain ripped off 'More than a feeling' for the Teen Spirit riff, but this is something else!!!!!
Teen Spirit does not sound like Boston to me
It's also quite like Louie Louie by the Kingsmen, lol
i think similarities don't make a song a rip off- at least i dont believe someone for eg like Sting, set out to write a tune and goes thru their record collection to get song progressions-maybe i'm just naive
when i listen closely i do hear what your saying tho Tim
Somebody like Sting has a large body of work that may suggest that he is quite capable of writing music
I am no way an apologist for Sting (I do like the Police)
But just seems unnecessary for him to blatantly rip off leo sayer.
it is feasable tho i have to admit
louie louie-great freakin song-lmao
Getting back on point
there is nothing to keep these superstar vultures or any one else for that matter, from ripping us off
Everytime I hear the latest Green Day song '21 Guns', I find myself singing 'All the Young Dudes'.... :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9_6MDTkRew
My 9 yr old son was listening to 'Lets Dance' by David Bowie, and realised the intro was just like this... :D
Bowie got there first though!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWKhYQarJU
Sorry, back on track... there's nothing anyone can do to avoid being ripped off to some degree. Big, established stars will do it by hiding behind their flashy lawyers, but will those same lawyers be looking out for their welfare at 3am in a dark alley?! There's no telling what a disgruntled person might do if they catch the culprit who plaigarised them...
Re: 'Bob The Builder' - I also hear The Isley Brothers & The Beatles ('Twist and Shout'). ;D
Quote from: Greeny on July 27, 2009, 09:12:22 AMEverytime I hear the latest Green Day song '21 Guns', I find myself singing 'All the Young Dudes'.... :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9_6MDTkRew
I think Billy Joe was ripping of the Billy Idol sneer more than Mott the Hoople, don't you think?? What a goober... :D :D
Quote from: guitarron on July 27, 2009, 09:11:04 AMGetting back on point
there is nothing to keep these superstar vultures or any one else for that matter, from ripping us off
Sorry - I suppose we ripped this post off :D But seriously, I agree that there is not much anyone can do to prevent someone from leaning on another series of notes.
I did post links earlier that had info in them to help protect your music - Discussions here from other member's past posts.
I guess Mozart and Beethoven wrote everything already anyway...
Hi all,
There's definitely a huge influence on Come As You Are by KJ's Eighties. Nirvana knew it (there were concerns about releasing the song) although whether it was subliminal or explicit we will never know, as KJ never pushed any copyright infringement to court (varying reports as to why). But Dave Grohl ended up playing drums on KJ's excellent 2003 album (just called "Killig Joke"). He had been a big KJ fan as a youngster.
Killing Joke were a huge influence on me, saw them several times and just loved all their stuff. Jaz Coleman is as mad as a brush but a superb front man, real stage presence. And Geordie's guitar sound is to die for.
Cheers,
Nigel
love the killing joke connection - i love killing joke
---their first release was best -- turn to red .
ta
At the risk of re-hijacking the thread, nobody will ever convince me that Sting did not catch a gig by these guys before forming the Police .... second song, starts about 2.45
Quote from: guitarron on July 27, 2009, 09:08:03 AMi think similarities don't make a song a rip off- at least i dont believe someone for eg like Sting, set out to write a tune and goes thru their record collection to get song progressions-maybe i'm just naive
when i listen closely i do hear what your saying tho Tim
Somebody like Sting has a large body of work that may suggest that he is quite capable of writing music
I am no way an apologist for Sting (I do like the Police)
But just seems unnecessary for him to blatantly rip off leo sayer.
it is feasable tho i have to admit
I agree completely, Ron. I can't believe that any serious musician would take someone else's song, change the words, and then call it their own work. Maybe a sleazy record company exec would do it ("Here's a new song we want you to record, Britney"), but not a musician like Sting. I think it just happens unintentionally. We've all listened to
lots of music in our lifetime, and that music has a huge influence on our own writing, even if we don't always see it. It's inevitable that some chord progressions, licks, and riffs that we've heard will find their way into our songs without us even realizing it.
I remember one time when I was a kid learning to play the guitar. I was messing around one day and came up with a simple little lead that I thought sounded amazing. I played it over and over to memorize it (I had no recorder back then). Then, a few weeks later, I was listening to the radio and I heard "my" lead being played as the intro to a new song called "Pictures of Matchstick Men" which I was hearing for the first time. It's inconceivable that Status Quo stole my lead (and impossible), and I know that I didn't steal it from them. I had never heard "Pictures of Matchstick Men" until a few weeks after I came up with that lead. So, it could have been a coincidence. But I think it's more likely that I unknowingly heard the song playing in the background somewhere while I was talking to someone or had my mind on something else, so I wasn't consciously aware of the song but it seeped into my subconscious and laid dormant until the day that I came up with that lead on my guitar.
Then there's the ridiculous lawsuit where George Harrison was accused of stealing The Chiffons' "He's So Fine" and using it for his recording of "My Sweet Lord". I mean, come on! George Harrison was one of the most brilliant and prolific songwriters of our time. He had no need to steal other people's songs. I have no doubt that any similarities between "My Sweet Lord" and "He's So Fine" were completely innocent and came from his subconscious or just coincidence. If someone had pointed out the similarity to him earlier, I'm sure he would have either scrapped the song or come up with any even better chord progression. But he probably wasn't aware of any similarities until the lawsuit.
Quote from: SteveG on July 27, 2009, 01:12:19 PMAt the risk of re-hijacking the thread, nobody will ever convince me that Sting did not catch a gig by these guys before forming the Police .... second song, starts about 2.45
I say "Da-a-ay--o!".
QuoteYou probably won't agree either. I just don't like Sting getting away with it Cheesy
I agree 100% , never thought about it before Tim , it fit's perfect
Facemask93
Quote from: Greeny on July 27, 2009, 08:34:11 AMI've had a bee in my bonnet about this since the eighties. The worst thing is that nobody believes or agrees with me (EVER!!!!). I figured it was because most people aren't 'musical' and don't have the right ear for song structures etc.
But I'm absolutely convinced that Sting / The Police absolutely ripped the buggery out of this Leo Sayer tune for 'Every Breath You Take'. They were clever about not making it obvious though. Listen to the structure though, and the middle 8....
You probably won't agree either. I just don't like Sting getting away with it :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdnEmg8RX8w
'LOVE YOU MORE THAN I CAN SAY' LEO SAYER (look it up on Youtube if the player won't work)
What's with all the Sting haters? I hear the similarities in the chord progression here, definitely, and in the basic tempo and feeling, but not in the singing melody, nor the lyrics. And I think the melody that is sung over a chord progression is possibly the most important part of a song. I mean, these two songs have practically identical structures, and yet one is pretty damned lame (Sayer's) and the other is a pretty good song (not one of their best, but still good). The difference? For various reasons, one is very forgettable and the other is very memorable. When you think about it, they almost sound
nothing alike, simply because of the shittiness of the Sayer song.
I think there are only so many chord progressions to go around when dealing with basic pop/rock music, and when people are educated about music (which I believe ol' Gordon is), they tend to know what chords are "supposed" to go with each other to form a nice little cohesive structure. This is actually one of the reasons I don't mind NOT knowing music theory. I don't
want to know what notes or chords are "supposed" to go with each other or why. I trust my ear to find chords that fit well with each other. I don't want to find myself writing cookie-cutter songs. Speaking of, what about nearly all of the rock 'n' roll and/or doo-wop songs of the 50s? There were only maybe 5 or 6 -- if that -- starkly different chord progressions/song structures that were used over and over, with only very slight variations -- if any -- between each different song. Therefore, hundreds, maybe thousands, of songs had the exact same chord progressions as one another, yet no one screamed plagiarism. Each artist found a way to make their songs sound unique, but most of the differences between songs simply came from the singing -- the voices themselves,
style of singing, and melody sung. And that, coincidentally, is also the major difference between "Love You more than I can Say" and "Every Breath You Take."
Quote from: launched on July 27, 2009, 07:39:10 AMMy biggest disappointment so far though was this - Great song but it crushed me when I realized what I was hearing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1oyfG6t2ew
Anyway...
Mark
Now, Killing Joke's "Eighties" and Nirvana's "Come as You Are" -- now, that's an entirely different story. That's a pretty original riff in the KJ song and there's almost no way Cobain didn't rip it off. However, because of the other differences -- such as singing style and melody, tempo, etc. -- the songs still sound completely different from one another. They are both great songs, and in Cobain's defense, there's a good chance it was subliminally or subconsciously done, much like Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" vs. The Chiffons' "He's so Fine," also referenced by 64G.
To answer Lexman's original question, all you have to do is copyright your material. The beautiful thing about that is that even if you haven't officially registered the material yet, as long as you post it with the (C) symbol and a year, that shows intent to copyright and your material is protected. On myspace, I always put a (C) symbol on my posted songs. Actually, we should all probably be doing this when we post our stuff even
here. I know we all trust each other, but everyone in the world has access to this forum, so it's not just about those of us in our little community who post and comment. :)
Quote from: Bosko Schwartz on August 14, 2009, 03:33:58 PMSpeaking of, what about nearly all of the rock 'n' roll and/or doo-wop songs of the 50s? There were only maybe 5 or 6 -- if that -- starkly different chord progressions/song structures that were used over and over, with only very slight variations -- if any -- between each different song.
And wat about the blues, there's maybe just 2 chord-progressions that get's used ove and over and over and over ...... even the melodies are recycled ... and to some degree the lyics ........
(yeah yeah all you blueslovers ... I'm exaggerating ..... but I think you get my point ....)
Quote from: Bosko Schwartz on August 14, 2009, 03:33:58 PMTo answer Lexman's original question, all you have to do is copyright your material. The beautiful thing about that is that even if you haven't officially registered the material yet, as long as you post it with the (C) symbol and a year, that shows intent to copyright and your material is protected. On myspace, I always put a (C) symbol on my posted songs. Actually, we should all probably be doing this when we post our stuff even here. I know we all trust each other, but everyone in the world has access to this forum, so it's not just about those of us in our little community who post and comment. :)
You should definitely be copywriting your stuff. It's awesome! If somebody stole something I did, flattery would take over before anger. The thing is, I don't know how anybody could imitate what you do - It's way too unique. The perpetrator would definitely get caught!!
I'm a fan, so maybe my viewpoint is skewed... ;D
Mark
Quote from: Geir on August 14, 2009, 04:11:51 PMAnd wat about the blues, there's maybe just 2 chord-progressions that get's used ove and over and over and over ...... even the melodies are recycled ... and to some degree the lyics ........
I totally agree, Geir.
Quote from: launched on August 14, 2009, 04:34:33 PMQuote from: Bosko Schwartz on August 14, 2009, 03:33:58 PMTo answer Lexman's original question, all you have to do is copyright your material. The beautiful thing about that is that even if you haven't officially registered the material yet, as long as you post it with the (C) symbol and a year, that shows intent to copyright and your material is protected. On myspace, I always put a (C) symbol on my posted songs. Actually, we should all probably be doing this when we post our stuff even here. I know we all trust each other, but everyone in the world has access to this forum, so it's not just about those of us in our little community who post and comment. :)
You should definitely be copywriting your stuff. It's awesome! If somebody stole something I did, flattery would take over before anger. The thing is, I don't know how anybody could imitate what you do - It's way too unique. The perpetrator would definitely get caught!!
I'm a fan, so maybe my viewpoint is skewed... ;D
Mark
Aww, Mark, you're just buttering me up. For what reason, I have no idea. :o But THANK YOU for the kind words! ;D
PS: All it takes to be able to do what I do is to have no music theory knowledge, no vocal or instrument training, and to have never taken a music instruction class of any kind!