There's a great thread called "Cassette Vulture (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=35951.0)" that began with Zoltan discussing how he scavenges high-quality cassette tapes at discount prices. And that led to a bump revival of songs from the Old School Studio Fest (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?action=festival;sa=OldSchoolStudio).
Reviving old comments, and leading to new comments such as these:
Quote from: bruno on May 08, 2016, 10:14:50 AMRewinding the tape, blimey that is painful. It has to be said, the digital age is a huge improvement! Recorded the drum loop and guitar from the BR into track 1, lead into track 2 and bass into track 3. Mixed on the porta-studio (and the panning in real time), back into the BR to get it back into the digital domain. Generally a pain-in-the arse!
Quote from: AndyR on April 13, 2025, 02:36:57 PMThere is NO WAY I'd go back to a 4-track cassette recorder ;D
Quote from: Johnbee on April 16, 2025, 12:37:01 PMin 2005 I finally went digital with a Zoom MRS 802. From there it was DAW-land.
Anyway, it reminded me of this video which I saw a couple of months ago. For a long time, I've been a believer that quality of life is better when you intentionally introduce some "inconveniences" – walking to the grocery store several times a week pushing a granny cart rather than driving once a week. Thant kind of thing. So this guy is singing my song.
Quote from: Billy HumeWorking with analog makes you take your art more seriously, like it's a skill, a craft, or a commitment. Being in the studio felt a bit like going to a wedding or an important meeting, or stepping on stage, because recording felt like a performance.
Timestamp: 04:10
Quote from: Billy HumeRewinding to the start of a verse took a bit longer... there was enough time to catch your breath, grab a sip of water, and gather your thoughts.
Timestamp: 09:34
Quote from: Billy HumeThe process has a huge impact on the outcome of your work... it's really about the workflow and committing to quality. It's also about having that creative space, just a little extra time to think.
Timestamp: 11:01
Yeah, that's an EXCELLENT vid, saw it a few months back. I subscribed to his channel on the strength of it.
After watching it, and some thought... I realised I actually treat digital stuff a bit like what he's describing. That's why I was so happy on a BR1600 for so long - I treated it like a reel-to-reel studio.
I'm almost treating Studio One like that now... but I've got editing of audio and various other things that I'd prefer not to give up - but I don't
need them to create.
I wouldn't go back to a 4-track cassette recorder because of the transport jams, tape-stretching, lo-fi, and so on. I had a 4-track
after I'd been in a studio. It was nice having it, REALLY nice, but it was "poor man's equipment", it wouldn't do what I'd already learnt to do.
Back to that vid...
The rewinding - it was funny when Billy Hume reminded me of that - he's absolutely right, gave you time to compose your thoughts. It didn't worry me at the time, it was just what you had to do.
The main difference on DAW based for me (and I didn't have this on the BR1600 either) is that you can SEE where to go in the song... you've a got a map on the screen that you can navigate.
Now, this one was VERY interesting to me when I saw it:
Quote from: Billy HumeWorking with analog makes you take your art more seriously, like it's a skill, a craft, or a commitment. Being in the studio felt a bit like going to a wedding or an important meeting, or stepping on stage, because recording felt like a performance.
Timestamp: 04:10
I ended up thinking carefully and comparing my current way of recording/over-dubbing to how I last did it in a studio with an engineer (24-track reel-to-reel, big desk, had to wait for rewinds, etc) ... apart from the fact I'm the engineer at the same time now, it feels NO DIFFERENT to me artistically than it did back then (1999).
It was always "ok, I've got a part I want to put here in this place, it fits with the rest of it like this... can you arm a track, give me a playback mix, and put me there?"
It still is for me. That's how I record even now.
But is this because I learnt the old way, and it feels creative to me, so I've stuck with it?
Is it because I learnt to write and rehearse and perform, not just a complete song at a time, but a whole set of songs... before I even discovered I might be allowed to make a record?
What would I be doing now if I'd started out when the affordable modern tools and equipment already existed?
Go back to 1978 when I started writing songs... before it even crossed my mind that I could perform in front of people... if you'd put an MBR in my hands then, I'd have started learning "recording" before I'd figured out how to write songs or perform. Before I'd discovered that people might actually applaud when I did it.
I
was messing around with the family music centre to see if I could tape things, but it was horrid and demoralising. I gave up and concentrated on being a singer-songwriter, learning how to entertain and play with other musicians.
But if I'd had an MBR instead, and if I'd played with recording first, I'd have a
completely different outlook/mindset now.
I am going to watch this video but I have not yet... but I have read the comments so far...
what if?
you make yourself pay 100 bucks an hour to record?
seriously. like you would or more at a real studio?
what would you do different? so I am not trying to hijack the thread but I think that would add right into what the premise of this thread is... which is take it more like a craft.. like serious... like art etc...
and also be better prepared... like you would in the studio.
I was reading about muscle shoals when they first recorded Lynard Skynard. The famous "engineer/producer" said he was so impressed with their guitarists knew the leads perfect every take... start to finish. So recording that didn't take long.
hmmmmm.
can't wait to watch this
Quote from: StephenM on April 22, 2025, 04:33:28 AMI was reading about muscle shoals when they first recorded Lynard Skynard. The famous "engineer/producer" said he was so impressed with their guitarists knew the leads perfect every take... start to finish. So recording that didn't take long.
hmmmmm.
My former gigging band (The Jackson, Mercer, Zakel Group) recorded in three different analog studios in the late 70s and early 80s. The first time we were less prepared and only got through 5 songs. The second time we were more prepared and got through 10 songs. The third and last time we were completely prepared/rehearsed and did the music to 15 songs in two hours and came back the next night and added all the vocals in two hours. Sorry about the tangent but your comment about Skynard knowing their songs perfectly when at Muscle Shoals triggered this memory, lol. I've watched half of the video and plan to watch the other half soon.
This topic is a gift that keeps on giving!
Quote from: AndyR on April 17, 2025, 09:41:31 AMWhat would I be doing now if I'd started out when the affordable modern tools and equipment already existed?
I know for sure that if i'd had anykind of 4-track recorder when i was playing in band(s) i would have been a total NAZI!
I mean i would have totally dictated EVERY instrument, EVERY eq setting and most likely every part being played.
I would have listened more of what others were playing and then started nagging and being the boss. The group spirit might have suffered, but the sounds would have been way better :D
"I feel like we're building a house of cards, and not just for the music industry but for the whole society. I'm not sure we're necessarily headed down the right path in so many ways."
Billy Hume
I started on two stereo handheld cassette players, acquired from jumble sales, and bouncing back and forth between the two cassette players. I dreamt of a 4 track. Necessity is the mother of all invention. I think i learnt a lot doing that process. That's what you do when you are skint. I loved it then, and still do
Quote from: bruno on April 23, 2025, 11:15:40 AMI started on two stereo handheld cassette players, acquired from jumble sales, and bouncing back and forth between the two cassette players. I dreamt of a 4 track. Necessity is the mother of all invention. I think i learnt a lot doing that process. That's what you do when you are skint. I loved it then, and still do
Ha Bruno, this put a smile on my face because I did the same thing with two cheapo cassette players. In fact that is how I recorded my first attempt at songwriting back in the 70s. By today's standards the recording was noisy and crappy but I liked the the song. That process let me capture the song idea and to add some lead guitar. I redid the song (It's Bad Luck) 20 years later using a Fostex digital 8 track with an analog mixer. Ahhh fun times!