I've been a BR guy since I started home recording. My first was a '532, then an '864, now I use a BR-900CD. I guess I've been using it for well over 10 years now. I think I am about to retire the old beast, and move on to a software DAW. The question, of course, is which one? I'm looking for something that is fairly simple to use for recording and mixing, and reasonably priced. Will need the basic tools and effects, but I don't need all the most advanced bells and whistles. Something that has been around, and will continue to be around for a long time.
What do you guys use, and why? What do you see as it's advantages/disadvantages?
Thanks!
I have heard good things about Reaper and I think it's pretty cheap... 60€ or something like that. I use GarageBand which is very easy to use but obviously u need a Mac computer or Macbook for that. Some of the other DAWs I have used on and off through the years and most can be a bit too complicated for me and pretty comfusing if you are not sure what you are doing.
Reaper is a great place to start. It's easy to use and to get to know, it's very capable, has some great free plug-ins, support for VST plugins, effects, software instruments etc. It doesn't need a small spaceship to run it, (I have a 8 year old laptop running 32 bit Windows 7, 2Gb RAM and SSD disk (the old spinning rust was too slow eventually).
It has support for Midi, ASIO (good audio timing) and I have a Behringer BCF 2000 control surface plugged into mine which gives me real faders, pan knobs, mute buttons and some transport controls. It supports high data rate audio (I use 24 bit, 96Khz most of the time) and it's really inexpensive. I paid about $40 when I initially bought the software which gave me upgrades right through the major version, and I resubscribed when my support ran out.
there's a load of help on the internet, the Cockos forum usually has the answer to your query (I recently added side-chaining to a bass line to add some variable compression to a bass line using the Kick drum to drive it).
I don't think it has ever crashed on me, I've not lost any work that I can remember.
And the most useful thing is that you can download it and use it for free with no limitation (other than a nag screen after the 30 day trial period that pops up on start-up) so if you don;t like it, or you need more time to try it, you can with no risk other than you own time.
That said, Rosegarden is one I have looked at, very similar to Reaper (they all are TBH) which runs on Linux (there's a Beta available of Reaper for Linux too), 64Guitars turned me on to Rosegarden, though I have settled on Reaper as my DAW of choice.
It's worth a download, it's very small, easy to use, very functional and very stable.
I think the best DAW is the one you know and get used to. I suspect that most these days are pretty good and offer all of the things you need and more. I personally use Presonus Studio One 4 pro and love it. I certainly can't think of any reason to change. I use a 4 year old pc albeit a fairly meaty one I7 32gb ram ssds etc on windows 10. There are several different cost options with different features but I think they are paid for. The pro version has a built in project page for mastering albums or collections of songs.
Quote from: chapperz66 on August 19, 2020, 04:04:44 PMI personally use Presonus Studio One 4 pro and love it. I certainly can't think of any reason to change.
PreSonus Studio One
5 was released July 7th.
https://www.presonus.com/press/press-releases/PreSonus-Studio-One-5 (https://www.presonus.com/press/press-releases/PreSonus-Studio-One-5)
https://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-One (https://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-One)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hymcQ1zD1FYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wFVX1OxM-0
Quote from: 64Guitars on August 19, 2020, 11:07:20 PMQuote from: chapperz66 on August 19, 2020, 04:04:44 PMI personally use Presonus Studio One 4 pro and love it. I certainly can't think of any reason to change.
PreSonus Studio One 5 was released July 7th.
I'm still on version 4 at the moment although I'm sure I will update eventually. I tend not to be an early updater - I'd rather allow others to deal with any bugs that may appear. That and I've spent a lot of dosh on sample libraries recently so I need to keep expenditure down for a while to keep Mrs C a little calmer.
Quote from: chapperz66 on August 19, 2020, 04:04:44 PMI think the best DAW is the one you know and get used to. I suspect that most these days are pretty good and offer all of the things you need and more. I personally use Presonus Studio One 4 pro and love it. I certainly can't think of any reason to change. I use a 4 year old pc albeit a fairly meaty one I7 32gb ram ssds etc on windows 10. There are several different cost options with different features but I think they are paid for. The pro version has a built in project page for mastering albums or collections of songs.
Yeah, you're the one I'm "monitoring" over my own possible DAW movements...
I tried a version of Presonus a while back and yeah, I could dig it.
I've got a question, though, what interface are you using? And does your setup use the interface for all the DAC stuff (ie playback and mixdown as well as recording audio). I'm guessing yes.
One of the reasons I am SO scared of leaving Boss (MBR originally and BR1600 since for at least 10 years) is I've understood that I adore the DAC that Boss put in those. The DAW setup I was using was complete arse sound-wise in comparison... I thought it was me at the time, then I got the MBR for Christmas and suddenly my tunes started sounding better overnight.
I've since learnt (I believe) that the DAC in use is a BIG factor in this... In fact, I dug my old interface out (EDIROL something) a few months back and got my laptop to use that for playing audio through the desk and monitors... and... er... "HOLY YUKKK Batman!" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ... that seems to confirm it for me.
Anyway, seeing as you've come from a BR1600 too, and you're using the DAW I'm tempted by, and I like the results you were and are now getting...
What magical interface are you using (please don't say it's some > £1K thing! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D)
I use a Presonus audiobox 1818vsl for my interface and it works brilliantly for me. I got it about 4 years ago when I moved on from the boss box and I can't quite remember how much I paid for it, but I think it was under £300. In truth, it has way more inputs than I needed which pushed the price up a bit, but having loads of inputs (8 on the front and loads on the back) allowed me to plug stereo outs from keyboards and amp sims into the front and never have to unplug anything. It has 48v phantom power for all the inputs, switchable by groups of channels, but I imagine most interfaces have these nowadays. All the audio both in and out goes through this interface, with monitor speakers effectively connected to the interface. When I decided that Studio one was the DAW for me, it kind of made sense to get a Presonus interface because they usually come bundled with a stripped down version of the DAW. Stripped down but still very usable.
The interface I have is discontinued now but there are new models which I am sure are even better. My one is so old that it connects via usb 2, but I have never really run into massive latency issues. New interfaces have usb 3.1, USB c or thunderbolt so I understand they are even quicker if you have the right ports on your computer.
So, I have a four year old quad core PC and the interface wasn't new to the market then, but I have no difficulty running songs with 60+ tracks and perhaps 8 software synths or samplers at a time. I have to convert soft synths into audio as I go, to stop the pc running out off oomph, but it is non destructive so I can always convert it back to midi if I decide later to change a part. You have to be a bit careful not to overload your processor, so putting separate delays and reverbs on every channel will cause issues. Instead you just use sends to a couple of effects channels.
I can absolutely relate to the reticence to make the plunge into the world of DAWs - I loved the BR1600 and I still have it in the wardrobe. But I really would not want to go back now that I have got a computer recording setup. I never have to worry about bouncing submixes as I go along. If I want another bell for one note in a song, I press "T" and I have another track to mix later.
I personally haven't come across too many downsides. There have been the occasional crashes, but that is normally because of a dodgy plugin or out of date driver. The learning curve is a bit steep but Youtube is your friend. You do need a reasonably powerful PC - I7 processor at least, SSDs, and as much RAM as you can afford - I have 32 gb and even then there is a limit to how many orchestral samples I can load at a time. I have had the occasional issue with Windows updates but always managed to overcome them The Presonus support team is excellent.
I won't even get into the wonders of track automation, parallel processing and effects chains/splitters etc. Hours of fun. I love it!
I am not an expert and I guess "I know what I know" but if you want to ask any other questions please feel free and I'll do my best. Given the quality of the recordings you achieve, I can't believe that you will struggle too much with any DAW.
Paul
Quote from: AndyR on August 21, 2020, 03:05:57 AMI've since learnt (I believe) that the DAC in use is a BIG factor in this... In fact, I dug my old interface out (EDIROL something) a few months back and got my laptop to use that for playing audio through the desk and monitors... and... er... "HOLY YUKKK Batman!" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ... that seems to confirm it for me.
What magical interface are you using (please don't say it's some > £1K thing! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D)
I have had the Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 for a good few years, it's pretty good, though discontinued. I see the 18i8 is up for less than £300 on DV24/7. If mine bust, I'd get another one.
Cheers guys - excellent info.
Focusrite and Presonus are the main ones on my radar for interfaces (actually, the Scarlet 2i2 3rd Gen has been on my amazon wishlist since 1st January - I suspect there was some "Christmas break sat on the sofa browsing/thinking" stuff going on! It was before I started recording again)
I've also been looking at the Presonus StudioLive mixers ... and they all come with Studio 1 Artist and a software package.
I was really hung up on "real faders" until recently, not so sure I am now. The last couple of things I did needed very little fader riding during a mix, I just set them and went. And when I was last using a DAW (Cakewalk before it became "Sonar") I got used to the idea of track automation for stuff like volume, sends and pan. I have feeling I won't need a real physical mixing desk.
I'm not jumping yet, the BR1600 is still going (when I switched it on in March it had some sticky buttons, but they've all pretty much recovered now - I think most of the button issues people have is just dirty contacts). But I have to say I'm feeling more inclined to switch back to a DAW now if I can get decent sound, and trying my old interface has proved to me I was in the "cheap seats" before.
There's some stuff I'm doing on the BR1600 now that would be SO much easier and less time consuming on a DAW.
I've even passed up the most recent possible guitar acquisition, thinking that I might want those "music" funds for something else...
I might download Studio One Prime, export the wavs from a BR project and see what I can do mixing in Studio One with the laptop's soundcard, just to get a feel of the Presonus way of doing things. I did that once before years ago, and it didn't seem that hard.
Did you end up buying an audio interface? If not yet, I really would grab a FocusRite Scarlett and use whatever DAW lite edition comes free with it, and then buy something after you've spent some Time getting your head around the DAW world.
I ended up going the PreSonus route, a week and a bit ago.
I went for the Studio 68c interface, mainly because I use 3 mics when doing live singer-songwriter recordings. So I needed 4 inputs.
I knew it came with Studio One Artist.
I tried the free Cakewalk for a while. That is Sonar as was, and it is very familiar (I had Cakewalk HomeStudio before I moved to Boss standalones).
It was cool, but I needed an interface...
I've been using Studio One 5.2 and a bunch of free stuff that came with for a week or so.
Just bought EZDrummer 2.
OK, I'm sold.
BR1600 is officially retired.
I'm about to upgrade to Studio One Professional, via their Sphere subscription deal.
Quote from: chapperz66 on August 19, 2020, 04:04:44 PMI think the best DAW is the one you know and get used to. I suspect that most these days are pretty good and offer all of the things you need and more. I personally use Presonus Studio One 4 pro and love it. I certainly can't think of any reason to change. I use a 4 year old pc albeit a fairly meaty one I7 32gb ram ssds etc on windows 10. There are several different cost options with different features but I think they are paid for. The pro version has a built in project page for mastering albums or collections of songs.
I like this answer... and I would suppose that you get what you pay for too... I use Bandlab which is free and the reason I use it is because within 5 minutes of downloading it I was able to mix with it. It's quite easy..... I tried Cakewalk and I banged around in there for an hour and couldn't even figure out how to get a track in there...so even though it looks like it has a lot more I didn't want to get lost in Wonderland...
now I stick with Bandlab because I know it...I am sure though it does not have all the best effects and autotune etc (I don't think it even has autotune)...anyway...I do think though that if you listen to Paul's recordings his results technically are very superior to much of what I have heard on SC....having said that at least some of that could be Paul's technical abilites.... but his software was also quite pricey...going back to my first line...
good luck Frank... I really like your songs and singing...I look forward to hearing more.
Flash cracked me up with this one .... "It doesn't need a small spaceship to run it, (I have a 8 year old laptop running 32 bit Windows 7, 2Gb RAM and SSD disk (the old spinning rust was too slow eventually)."
still laughing
and I am with Andy on this....so much easier to edit and mix on the DAw then on the BR.... I did not mention that I do not yet interface to the Bandlab... I typically record on the Zoom or the BR and take the tracks off and put them on bandlab via computer (which is easier and faster with the zoom)...my zoom can be an interface however... I just never tried it yet...I may have to so I can report here whether it's easy or hard..I am really into easy these days...
I suggest Reaper because you can try it for free. And there is a lot of information on forums. And it has basic plugin effects included (and you can find many others online for free "VST effects")