Songcrafters.org

I just got my hands on a BR800
the guy who owned it could'nt get to grips with it   ;D ;D
so I'm gonna start in at the deep end and try and record a song from start to finish
guitar in one hand and the BR bible in the other
wish me luck

Tommy

ps My worn out BR600 doesnt look too happy about this  ::) ::) ::) ::)

magic

Go Tommy go

Rock on!

Well done.

Its taken me about a month to feel like I'm getting somewhere with mine.

I've got 3 or 4 songs nearly completed.  I'm re-doing some of them because I'm trying to learn how to do things properly. Such as:
- Recording tracks - getting levels right, organising the arrangements, bouncing
- Using effects - understanding the various choices eg: compression, EQ, pitch correction for vocals - I'm swamped by the choices
- Mixing - getting the pans and levels correct
- Finishing off - copying to a DAW and trimming the start and the ends and normalising

There's a lot to do, let alone the playing and the singing and the writing, phew!

I hope you have fun

Ian

Thanks guys
I have to say I'm struggling  >:( >:( >:( >:(
it's kinda like starting all over again.

Congrats Tommy.

I'm sure you'll love it.  It's a great piece of equipment !!

Go Tommy go!

 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
After using the BR600 for so long
I'm kinda in no mans land
so I have decided that next week
forget about the 600-
I will knuckle down and really get stuck into recording with the BR800
my first impression
a lot is a first for me
touch buttons -entering and exiting --
using the scroll wheel looking for
panning -effects(like reverb ;D)
guitar patches etc
But I must say
the sound is classy !!!!
it seems to have an extra -how do I describe it....bumphhhhh
so onwards and forwards etc.......

Congrats, I'm loving mine.  I printed out the manual on 8 X 11 paper, hole punched it and put it in a binder but I haven't opened it once.  I just dove right into the BR-800, plugged my guitar and a microphone in based on what I've read here and other places and started messing around with the settings.

Once you get used to it it will provide hours of very enjoyable time recording.

Here's an informative youtube video that is helpful for new users:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cH67zEIuMk

Thanks for the link 7th
regards
Tommy

Latest update on the BR800
I don't like it-
I tried hard to get into it
but no.
so it will be in the post to it's new owner on Monday morning
Ok -I will lose out on it -by about 10Euro/7 pounds/12 $ (postage to Galway)
but its not for me
==========================
I did try but I am old fashioned in my outlook
so my opinion -is only mine
I don't want to be tied to Sonar or any other PC recording -
I just couldn't get to grips with it
the 800 has some great features like harmony etc -
but the BR600 (worn out as it is -like myself smile3) is my comfort recording zone -
and I think I will buy another 600 2nd hand -from one of the local sites -just to have on standby.
they are going pretty cheap.
========================
maybe I never gave the 800 a chance -but .........................

Tommy

send it tae me.............................................

Quote from: fenderbender on May 10, 2013, 05:38:09 PMLatest update on the BR800
I don't like it-
I tried hard to get into it
but no.

Sorry to hear that, Tommy. And a bit surprised. The BR-800 is a great recorder and not all that different from the BR-600 and other BRs.

QuoteI don't want to be tied to Sonar or any other PC recording -
I just couldn't get to grips with it

That's understandable. Software DAWs are a lot more complicated than standalone recorders. But then they're a lot more powerful in some ways too. That's the trade-off. But if ease-of-use is important to you, a standalone multitrack recorder beats a software DAW any day.

However, the BR-800 is a fully-functional standalone recorder (provided you have version 1.10 or higher of the operating system) and it can do just about everything the BR-600 can do (and more) without the need of a computer. The one exception that comes to mind is the drum machine. With the BR-800, you need a computer running the BR Rhythm Editor if you want to create or edit custom patterns. But that's only for custom patterns. If you want to create drum arrangements using the built-in preset patterns, you can do that right on the BR-800 without using a computer. I believe you also need the BR Wave Converter to transfer WAV files to or from the computer. The BR-600 could do that directly without the BR Wave Converter. But, either way, you still need a computer as the source or the destination of the WAV files, so having to use the BR Wave Converter isn't a big deal, and it offers some advantages (batch-processing and faster transfers). Anyway, you certainly don't need to use SONAR or any other DAW to use the BR-800. You can record, edit, mix, and master your songs entirely in the BR-800 just as you can with the BR-600.

The BR-600 is a good recorder. The only thing I'd be concerned about is its use of CompactFlash memory cards that are limited to 1GB. Those are scarce as hen's teeth these days. So, if you don't already have some, you might want to see if you can find a few before you buy a BR-600. It would be very limiting if all you had was the 128MB card that comes with it. And even having one 1GB card might be a bit risky since it could fail on you one day and you might not be able to find another. So I'd recommend having a few on hand, just in case.

If the memory card issue is important to you, then you might consider a newer recorder. There's always the BR-80 which uses SD cards up to 32GB. Or the Zoom R8, R16, and R24 which seem pretty good (though I've never had the opportunity to try one). The TASCAM DP-24 looks awesome too, though it may be overkill for your needs.

On the other hand, if you've already got a bunch of 1GB CompactFlash cards, then the BR-600 might be your best bet since you're already comfortable with it. One thing that the BR-600 has going for it is the velocity-sensitive drum pads. No other BR, past or present, has that feature.

Out of curiosity, why did you upgrade from the BR-600 to the BR-800? Was there something about the BR-600 that you didn't like, or were you just hoping for more effects, drum patterns, etc.?

By the way, since the BR-600 is no longer made and you'll have to buy it used, you might also consider the BR-900. It's very similar to the BR-600 in operation. However, with the version 2 system update, it offers more effects and amp models. Plus it has a bigger display, a built-in CD recorder, MIDI Out, and a few other pluses. On the minus side, it lacks the velocity-sensitive drum pads and only has one built-in mic instead of two. I'm not necessarily recommending the BR-900 over the BR-600. Which one is best for you depends on your own needs. I only mention it in case your reason for upgrading to the BR-800 was largely to get more effects. If so, the BR-900 also offers more effects than the BR-600, but is very similar to the BR-600 in operation and features. However, like the BR-600, the BR-900 has the problem of using 1GB CompactFlash cards.


Correction:

Quote from: 64Guitars on May 10, 2013, 07:05:58 PMBy the way, since the BR-600 is no longer made and you'll have to buy it used, you might also consider the BR-900. It's very similar to the BR-600 in operation. However, with the version 2 system update, it offers more effects and amp models.

I believe the effects in the BR-900 (even with the ver 2 update) are exactly the same as the BR-600. The version 2 update only adds new amp models (from the GT-PRO multi-effects unit) and 29 additional patches that use those new amp models. The BR-900 with version 2 has a total of 46 amp types, whereas the BR-600 has 13 amp types. But the effects are the same.

Also, on re-reading your post, I got the impression that you still have your BR-600 and were only thinking of buying another as a backup. I didn't realize that when I wrote the reply above. I thought you got rid of the BR-600 when you bought the BR-800 and you're now contemplating buying a BR-600 to replace the BR-800. So some of my points above may not apply if you still have your BR-600.

Quote from: fenderbender on May 10, 2013, 05:38:09 PMLatest update on the BR800
I don't like it-
I tried hard to get into it
but no.
so it will be in the post to it's new owner on Monday morning
Ok -I will lose out on it -by about 10Euro/7 pounds/12 $ (postage to Galway)
but its not for me
==========================
I did try but I am old fashioned in my outlook
so my opinion -is only mine
I don't want to be tied to Sonar or any other PC recording -
I just couldn't get to grips with it
the 800 has some great features like harmony etc -
but the BR600 (worn out as it is -like myself smile3) is my comfort recording zone -
and I think I will buy another 600 2nd hand -from one of the local sites -just to have on standby.
they are going pretty cheap.
========================
maybe I never gave the 800 a chance -but .........................

Tommy

I can fully understand this. I looked at the other BR's, the 800 was one of them. Like yourself I found that it looked way to complicated for me, I don't  like messing about with computers, putting drum tracks together in the machine is taxing enough without the hassle of doing stuff on computers. Most people just wanna get on with playing and putting down tracks rather than going back and forth from standalone to computer back to standalone then back to the computer. It's time consuming and can be frustrating.

I have the BR80 which I kinda like, before I had the MBR so the jump to the BR80 was not a giant leap but I have my moments of hassle. Out of the two 800 and 80, the 80 has a lot going for it, for a start you have 8 tracks before a bounce is needed, the drums are a separate track, I can dive into the drum editor and change what I want at anytime. Having eight tracks before a bounce is fantastic, meaning for me, I don't as yet have to bounce anything.
I think I made the correct choice with the BR80.

My mate has the BR600 and has done some wonderful  stuff with it, bit like yourself this is all he has ever needed and he won't be changing any time soon. But, like 64 has pointed out the compact flash cards are hard to get and seem very expensive, I can't find a 1 gb one anywhere. Personally I reckon the BR80 may have been a better choice for yourself, however this still would of been a steep learning curve but maybe not as much as the 800.

And it sounds like you, like me, do things that we feel very comfortable and content with and that's not a bad place to be.

Quote from: fenderbender on May 10, 2013, 05:38:09 PMLatest update on the BR800
I don't like it-
I tried hard to get into it
but no.
so it will be in the post to it's new owner on Monday morning
Ok -I will lose out on it -by about 10Euro/7 pounds/12 $ (postage to Galway)
but its not for me
==========================
I did try but I am old fashioned in my outlook
so my opinion -is only mine
I don't want to be tied to Sonar or any other PC recording -
I just couldn't get to grips with it
the 800 has some great features like harmony etc -
but the BR600 (worn out as it is -like myself smile3) is my comfort recording zone -
and I think I will buy another 600 2nd hand -from one of the local sites -just to have on standby.
they are going pretty cheap.
========================
maybe I never gave the 800 a chance -but .........................

Tommy

Oh sweetie, as long as you're making music it doesn't matter what you record it with :)

Thanks for your comments Haylie -chip and 64
==================
 64
On your query re the 800
I more or less thought it would be the next natural step up for me from the 600 (which like myself is old and decrepid ::) ::) ::) ::)
now once again it is a classy piece of recording equipment
all your points as usual make good sense 64
so it is me as I have said before.
I have a couple of cards for the 600 so I am ok that way.
I know they are now obsolete-but maybe I should look sideways as you have suggested at the 900
thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me
as usual 64 you are a rock of sense and a mine of great info-


Tommy
ps now wheres me old jumper(sweater) that I have had for the last 20 years ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thanks Haylie you are an angel ;D

chip -A friend of mine has a br80 -maybe I will try and borrow it for a while

regards

Tommy

Quote from: fenderbender on May 11, 2013, 08:32:42 AMThanks Haylie you are an angel ;D

chip -A friend of mine has a br80 -maybe I will try and borrow it for a while

regards

Tommy

Hi Tommy. Yes mate I think you should. One thing about the 80 is there is loads of info on here and the tube. However it is small and has no sliders but is quite a bit easier to navigate than the MBR and you have 8 tracks to play with before the hassle of a bounce. Give it a whirl and let us know what you think. Cheers Chip.

Apart from the 1GB limit, there's nothing wrong with the old BRs. I wouldn't call them obsolete. I'm still using my BR-864 which I bought 10 years ago. The new BRs have some advantages that interest me (control surface, audio interface, new effects, etc.) but they also lack some features I've grown used to. For example, I use my BR-864's MIDI Out quite often to sync it with my keyboard and the new BRs don't have MIDI. So I'm in no hurry to upgrade. My BR-864 suits me just fine for now. If Roland comes out with a more advanced recorder that includes MIDI, I might be interested. But until then, I'll stick with my BR-864.

So, if you're comfortable with your BR-600 or you want to try a BR-900, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you have enough 1GB CompactFlash cards to last you.

On the other hand, you might like the BR-80, and if you can borrow one from your friend to try it out, that would be a great idea. There are a few things you might find hard to get used to. The main one is the lack of faders. Since you're used to having faders, this might seem strange. You have to select the track first, then use the wheel to adjust the level. On the plus side, memory cards for the BR-80 are easy to find and inexpensive, and it has lots of new effects for you to experiment with. Plus, the drum machine's a bit easier to program since you don't have to specify starting measures. If you can borrow a BR-80 and weigh up the pros and cons, you'll be able to decide if it's the right recorder for you.

Quote from: chip on May 11, 2013, 06:34:51 AMI don't  like messing about with computers, putting drum tracks together in the machine is taxing enough without the hassle of doing stuff on computers. Most people just wanna get on with playing and putting down tracks rather than going back and forth from standalone to computer back to standalone then back to the computer. It's time consuming and can be frustrating.

The way that I use the computer in my recording projects, there's no need to go back and forth between the computer and the BR. I only transfer the tracks from the BR to the computer once using the BR Wave Converter.

Here's what I do:

• This step may not be necessary if you record original songs. But I mostly do covers, so I usually start a song on the computer and transfer a few WAV files to the BR using BR Wave Converter. For example, I usually get an MP3 of the original song, convert it to a WAV file, and copy it to the BR so I can learn all the parts. I also create my drum tracks on the computer using Hydrogen or, more recently, a software sequencer. Once I've got a basic drum track created, I'll export it to a WAV file and copy it to the BR. And since I bought my Akai MIDI keyboard controller six months ago, I usually start a song by creating some keyboard tracks on the computer. I then make a stereo mix of those tracks as a WAV file and copy it to the BR.
  
  But, like I said, all of these things may be unnecessary, depending on what you want to record. If you're doing an original song, or a cover of a song that you already know how to play, then you obviously don't need a copy of the original song on your BR. If you want to create your drum track on the BR, then you won't have any drum tracks to copy from the computer to the BR. And if you don't have a keyboard controller on your computer, you won't have any keyboard tracks to copy.
  
  
• Now that I've got everything I need on the BR, I start recording my guitar and bass tracks on the BR. Sometimes, I might also record some keyboard tracks on the BR from my Yamaha keyboard. But lately, I've mostly been using my Akai MIDI keyboard controller to do the keyboard tracks on the computer instead. Occasionally, I might do both if there's a particular sound I want from the Yamaha and other sounds I want from softsynths on the computer. But usually, it's one or the other.
  
  If I need to record more than 8 tracks on the BR, I'll make a temporary mix in bounce mode so that I can monitor it while recording more tracks. I don't fuss with this mix because it won't be used for the final production. I use it only for monitoring purposes, so the quality isn't important.
  
  
• When I've finished recording all of my tracks on the BR, I turn it off, remove the CompactFlash card, and take it upstairs to my computer room. I insert the memory card into a USB Card Reader and connect it to my computer. I then use BR Wave Converter to transfer all of the individual tracks (but not the mixes) to my computer as WAV files.
  
  At this point, I'm finished with the BR. From here on, everything will be done on the computer. There's no need to transfer anything back to the BR.
  
  
• I import all of the individual WAV files from the BR into Audacity, along with the drum tracks and any WAV files I might have created on the computer. Now that I have all my tracks in Audacity, I can edit them, process them, and mix them right in Audacity. Mixing in Audacity has many advantages over mixing in the BR, especially if you have lots of tracks. Audacity lets you work with all of your tracks at once instead of being limited to just 8 at a time on the BR. So you have complete control of the mix. No tracks are locked into a pre-mixed bounce. You can control the levels of all of your tracks individually. It's also much easier to edit your tracks because it's so much more visual. And there are a wide variety of effects you can apply to your tracks, if desired.
  
  
• Once I have a mix that I'm happy with, I export it from Audacity as a stereo WAV file.
  
  
• Now I bring the exported WAV file back into a new project in Audacity for final trimming, normalization, etc. As I've said several times before, I'm not a big fan of mastering effects, so I seldom use them. But, if I feel that the final mix needs some compression or EQ, I can do that right in Audacity. Once the song is trimmed, processed, and normalized, I export it as a stereo WAV file. This becomes my final master recording. I also export it again, but this time as an MP3 for posting to Songcrafters. Before exporting the MP3, I make sure I edit the tag data to include the song title, my name, and any other information I want in the tags.

That's it. The song is finished. The description above may seem complicated because I've gone into a fair bit of detail. But it's really pretty simple and boils down to this:

• Create and prepare a new song project on the BR.
• Record tracks on the BR and export them to WAV files using BR Wave Converter.
• Load WAV files into Audacity for editing, processing, and mixing.
• Export final mix to a stereo WAV file.
• Trim, process, and normalize the final mix and export it in both WAV and MP3 formats.

Compare this to the procedure for doing everything on the BR:

• Create and prepare a new song project on the BR.
• Record tracks on the BR.
• Mix tracks on the BR and bounce to a stereo pair.
• Optionally, master the final mix.
• Export final mix to a stereo WAV file using BR Wave Converter.
• Trim, process, and normalize the final mix in Audacity and export it in both WAV and MP3 formats.

As you can see, the procedures aren't all that different. In both cases, you have to use BR Wave Converter once to transfer tracks from the BR to the computer. The difference is in whether you're transferring a finished stereo mix or the individual tracks. But it's a one-way, one-time transfer regardless of which procedure you use. And you should always use Audacity (or some similar audio editor) to trim and normalize your finished song before posting it to Songcrafters. Since you're going to be using Audacity anyway, why not do your mixing there? It offers a lot of advantages compared with mixing on the BR.

I understand that some people have tried SONAR (mostly because it came with their BR) and found it overwhelming. It's a complex and powerful program that takes a lot of time and effort to learn how to use it effectively. But Audacity is a much simpler program. Most people here at Songcrafters already use Audacity, even if it's only for trimming their song and normalizing the levels before posting. So you already have a bit of familiarity with it, and learning to mix with it isn't a huge leap.

If you've never tried mixing in Audacity before, give it a try. You might like it.

Mixing in Audacity is especially useful for users of the original Micro BR or the BR-532 because those recorders can only mix 4 tracks at a time. You're constantly working with previous mixes on those recorders, so you have little control over the relative levels of individual tracks as they're already locked into a previous mix. But, if you export all of your individual tracks and mix them in Audacity instead, you'll have full control over every track individually. And you won't have to fuss as much with your bounces because you'll only use them for monitoring. They won't be included in the final mix, so it doesn't matter what they sound like. In fact, you can use mono bounces instead of stereo. That way, you'll have 3 empty tracks available for further recording instead of just 2. For monitoring purposes, mono is perfectly adequate. When you mix the individual tracks in Audacity, you can pan them wherever you want for full stereo.

It's also very easy to duplicate tracks in Audacity. For example, you could record a single guitar track on the BR. Then, after you've brought all the individual tracks from the BR into Audacity, you can duplicate that guitar track, shift the copy 20 to 30 milliseconds for a slight delay, and pan one track to the left and the other to the right for a nice, rich stereo doubling effect. You can do the same thing on the BR but it's much easier to do it in Audacity.

Wow. Very comprehensive. Ive been in the makeshift studio which is under construction and am having very good ( in my opinion) results with the BR80 mic-ing guitars up. I seemed to have hit a sweet spot  and the levels are just dandy, It sort of spurned me on a bit. I must have spent 6 hours over the last two days just messing with levels, positions and sounds trying to figure out the best way to record the guitars. trouble is I haven't got round to the song in great detail. I must say the guitars sound very natural using the cheap Behringer mic with the Vox mini, close mic-d, facing the wall corner with pillows and cushions surrounding the amp and mic holding the sound in. I really must spend more time at all this stuff. I will try and follow 64's recommendations but some of the mastering effects sound very good on the BR80. My next step may be some active monitors. Cheers.

My 2p worth on the BR80 - out of all the things I have purchased (apart from my guitar) it is the thing that I get most use out of. It's real easy to use, which is why I went for the 80, and is fantastic value IMO. However, the main drawback for me is that you can't record vocals and guitar to separate tracks simultaneously as it only has one input (not sure if that's the right term). Also the presets for the vocals suck real bad.

Apologies if these points have already been made.

(Tommy I hope you found your jumper honey!)

64 as I said in another post you are a mine of great tips and info.
I love the way you set out everything in clear detail
thank you for your time and great info
If you ever get to my local pub I will buy you a beer or two ;D ;D
regards

Tommy

Quote(Tommy I hope you found your jumper honey!)
 

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
no I didn't Haylie
I think it must be down in one of the local charity shops
If I see it it I will have to buy it back for a couple of euros /quid/dollars ;D ;D ;D ;D