Elizabeth's Room - AndyR Original

[stoman]

The problem I have with the original is that a) the guitars sound a little unnatural and b) the backing vocals are too rich/soft and don't cut...

I can't hear any problems with the guitar sound, Andy. I'll listen again with head phones and over my Genelecs later, but when I first listened to the original version, I thought it was perfect.

I don't think you should aim for clarity. Your music has that nice analog retro vibe. I like that much more than the clean, if not to say clinical, modern way of mixing, and I always try to get that sound for my own mixes too. That's why I use a lot of tape saturation and other means to distort and warm clean digital sounds.

Regards,
  Steffen

[Ferryman]

I saw you post this before Christmas and was saving it as a late Xmas pressie as I knew it would be a treasure. It's a wonderful song, I have to say quite redolent of Roy Harper, definitely more Roy than John Martyn for me. The vocals are really the centrepiece here and they are wonderful, great expression and feeling. You have wonderful vocal control and get great expression and tremolo into your vox without going over the top. The acoustic guitars create a wonderful lush pillow for the arrangement and really complement the story telling of the lyrics. As always, it's beautifully recorded and a pleasure to listen to.

Regarding the mixes, I've only listened on my M-Audios rather than headphones so that I got a cleaner and mpre realistic interpretation of each mix - headphones always colour the playback I find. I think both mixes work well and you could happily take either. I think the second mix has less body and presence but is a tad clearer and the guitars sound more like 12 strings, while on the first mix they sound more nylon-ish. I agree with Steffen that the first mix is warmer and I personally prefer it, but it is a little heavy on some of the mid ranges. You could always try remastering it with some cutting to the mids and some high end boost just to add some presence at the top end.

But it really doesn't need much tweaking. Both mixes are clear, balanced and sound great and the let the power of the song and the performance shine through. Fantastic work, a real pleasure to listen to!

Cheers,

Nigel

[AndyR]

Many thanks for your help and comments guys.

Final remaster now attached to the original post - I likes it

Ferryman - you saved me a lot of effort with your post. I'd already figured out what I wanted to happen from steffen's and hardlock's input. But, to do it, I was getting all geared up to do a re-mix after tweaking and mastering the various submixes first - this probably would have worked (maybe even better) but it was going to take ages and could easily have been somewhat hit and miss. I had the machine warmed up I was calculating bounces and mastering phases and sipping my coffee thinking "oh...  here we go...".

And then your post arrived and it was all so OBVIOUS . All I had to do was use the same mix, go back to the "Pop" mastering preset and do some serious investigation into why and how it did what it did. With some fiddling I got the backing vox breathing how I wanted.

Steffen, I have a feeling you'll still prefer the original you have - but that's fine . Actually, eventually, I had no issue with the guitars on the original, you guys converted me! In fact, much of the time on the final one was spent taming the guitar top-end back nearer to this (without losing what I wanted from the bv's)... in the end I got a compromise I'm pleased with. The only way I could better it is with a complete remix, and even then I think something else might go astray.

Anyway, out of all of the versions I've heard now (and this is one of 3 since ferryman's post), this is my favourite and is closest to what I was aiming at during the mixing.

I'm not going to mess with it anymore (hence me removing the other two versions) until... err... well, when my double-bass arrives things might change again (after all, this was the song I was buying the bluddy thing for in the first place! )

If anyone feels like boosting Elizabeth's chart stats on soundclick, she's here. But it don't sound as good though (with whatever encoding/compression they do, the original would probably sound a lot better!).

[Ferryman]

It works perfectly for me. You've got a bit more presence and sharpness to the vox without losing the warmth on the guitars. Also, you've tamed the crescendo towards the end (I think about 3:20, the timer thing isn't working for me), which was clipping very slightly on the previous versions.  Just listened to it on headphones and I love the intimate sound you've created.

There's also a bit of Scott Walker in this for me - the strong vocals reminded me of some of his solo work. But it's definitely AndyR all over. Several thumbs up.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Balleo]

Great song  so inspired !

and DADGAD give many atmosphere. Bravo !

[SwanSong]

What a great song and ingenious titile elizabeths room loved the guitar
vocals etc. well executed and superbly preformed. tc NEIL.............

[stoman]

If anyone feels like boosting Elizabeth's chart stats on soundclick

Done!

Haven't listened to the latest version thoroughly yet - but will do later, when I'm in bed.

Regards,
  Steffen

[hooper]

Wow!  I'm late to the party on this one but what a treat to find this morning. Quality, quality, quality!  So expertly done all the way... great song, performance and production with a really nice rendering of acoustic guitar sounds and compelling vocals.  The backing vocals and harmony are so fine too... wish they were more up in the mix in some places.  It shows that a lot of thought and work went into planning and pulling this off.  Great job. Congratulations! 

Yes, it can be maddening... trying to decide which is the best mastered version. And ultimately there is still the problem of reference and the fact that it's going to sound a bit different on every different system it gets played on, speakers vs cans, etc.  Hard to find the perfect solution when there IS no perfect solution.   


 

[Kevin Mammoth]

This is brilliant! Pure class all the way - and the production is oh so polished - magic!

[Oldrottenhead]

i heard the first post i think i missed the second post and am now on the third post.

i should have downloaded when i heard as i cant compare now, however its still a bloody great song and performance, and at the end of the day that is the most important thing.

i dont think the average listener is gonna notice the differences in mixes and if the song wasnt any good they wouldnt listen to it at all.

on boxing day/night (there must be a song in that line) i let my friends hear this song about 4 or 5 of us , not sure which version was on.but anyway i said hey listen to this guy. we let it play three or four times before we got back to drinking and eating, but my friends told me to give up and leave the music to guys like you.

anyway i will be emailing them the link to your song player as mrs orh enforced a pc ban when visitors are here.