melody or lyrics first?

[Glenn Mitchell]

Hmm, a systematic approach.. what an idea!
Usually I get either a phrase or a chord pattern or riff/rhythm pattern.
Then I build from there.

[Bluesberry]

Just to be awkward, my preferred method is somewhere in between. I like to come up with a phrase or a title that usually sits somewhere in the chorus. Once I have that, I think about the mood and style of music required to fit the overall theme. The rest of the lyrics happen very easily from that point usually. Once I have the chords, I'll fix the pattern of the syllables etc in my head and go away to write words to fit. Sometimes they partly arrive on their own as I'm strumming out the chord patterns.  

That describes my method pretty much as well.  It sorta happens at the same time, but usually I have an outline recorded before too much lyrics come.  I find I get the chords worked/recorded out and then work on my lyrics/vocal melody at the same time as I work out a bassline.  I find the vocals and bass need to be somewhat in sync, record the bass, then finally record the vocals and finish up with any solos, extra bits, etc.

[AndyR]

I can do either, with varying degrees of success with both.

In general, the ones that get finished (writing that is, recording is something separate for me) usually get sparked by some improvised guitar and vocal noodling that grabs me at the time.

I found out a while ago that "title first" is the most efficient/economic way of getting to a completed song that more people than just your nearest and dearest think is any good. This kind of makes sense when you think about it - certainly for three, four minute songs. A song is a self-contained statement, the title is the bit that we use to say "oh, I like so-and-so", so the title should encapsulate the whole thing if at all possible. So if you've got a title, and it sits in the hook (the chorus or whatever), and if you keep focused on what it means to you, it can be easier to finish off the rest of it. This works whether you're talking about music first or lyrics first.

Even when I'm trying to stick to this, though, my most used method is still the same: I get one set of lyrics for each element (verse, chorus, etc) that sing/perform well by just improvising the song (music and lyrics together). I then take the thing apart, figure out how long it is, how much more is needed, where the emotional highlight(s) are, and write the rest. Usually what I call the "arrangement" gets finished first - how many verses/choruses/other-bits, any key changes, where instruments and backing vocals might be added or dropped out (I imagine this all in my head while strumming the thing at a mirror usually).

If I'm lucky, all the lyrics arrive during this process. Otherwise I take the A4 pad somewhere away from the music and try to write the stuff that's meant to be there but isn't. The trick seems to be about remaining "supple" and open to change. I used to feel commited to anything I'd already managed to finish, but this can lead me into a corner I can't get out of and the song is impossible to finish. Nowadays, I find that what I thought was the first verse can easily turn out to be the last verse, or not even in the song at all...

[Bluesberry]

I just did up a song where  started with drums first.  I recorded a 4 minute drum track just for fun, and to try to see if I can record my newish E-drums good.  I just played and recorded, no song ideas.  Then I used the drum track and laid on some guitar, then some keyboard stuff where it seemed to fit.  Then I listened to this and wrote lyrics, and added my vocals.  Following the vocals and drums I added bass.  Finally I added a guitar solo.  Interesting way to write a song.  I enjoyed it and will definitely do it this way again.

[kc2ine]

if you write lyrics first, that is not a song IMO but a poem to which later you're trying to fit some melody.

[Bluesberry]

if you write lyrics first, that is not a song IMO but a poem to which later you're trying to fit some melody.

Interesting theory.  So what about the guy who writes the music first, then adds lyrics after, is this just an instrumental that to which you are trying to fit some words.......where will it stop.  Ahhhhh, the mysteries of song.

[FuzzFace]

if you write lyrics first, that is not a song IMO but a poem to which later you're trying to fit some melody.

Interesting theory.  So what about the guy who writes the music first, then adds lyrics after, is this just an instrumental that to which you are trying to fit some words.......where will it stop.  Ahhhhh, the mysteries of song.

This is way to subjective to debate.

Music aside, at what point to words become a poem?  There is no rule.

Or if I am writing or recording a component of a song, such as a drum beat or a chord sequence, is that music or something else?

It doesn't matter.

[Bluesberry]

I once started a song with nothing but the sound of a cricket chirping.........so would this be considered a song or maybe a sound effect to which I fitted lyrics, which I then fitted music.  Would this be a cricket poem or a song?  Hmmmmm, I'm getting all deep here, maybe its time to crack open some of my muse there in the fridge.

[Bluesberry]

say you started out with an actual debate, the words from a debate, and added music afterwords............so is this a song........if the debaters were singing.............and the debate was about music?

[thetworegs]

I like to come up with a phrase or a title that usually sits somewhere in the chorus. Once I have that, I think about the mood and style of music required to fit the overall theme.
Having a theme / title is always the best start for me.
Doesn't matter to me how it arrives, as long as it does!

I totally agree with Greeny I get the theme of the story and mood of the music and I'm away, from that point it writes itself