"Birth of the Sun" by The Stan Laurels (Two Mixes: One With Drums, One Without)

[Bosko Schwartz]

Hello all, I haven't posted a song in a while, and I am currently working on mixing the final song on the album, entitled, "Birth of the Sun."  This is yet another song that has been almost finished and was put on the shelf for 1 - 2 years.  After this puppy is finalized, the album will be COMPLETE!

This one applies to the concept album, of course, but is also a song I wrote for my son, hence the pun in the title.  For this reason, or perhaps other reasons I can't figure out, I think it's my most "mainstream" sounding song, whatever that means.

This is the first rough mix.  Problems I have with the mix right now are that the bass might be a bit high, and backing vocals too far in the BG.  Plus, I am just not feeling the mix come together smoothly, but can't quite pinpoint exactly why.  Haven't listened to it much yet, actually.  As for the BG vox, I am using the "Bright Choir" effect on them, which might have something to do with it.  They were recorded dry, so it won't be a problem to put different FX on them.

All comments are welcome and appreciated!

[launched]

Just had the first listen on the cheapo headphones. I do this first to see how the low end is doing (And how cymbals sound). Not sure what you mean by too much bass - When I hit the Bose in my pickup I might get better intel on that.

So far I hear one cool guitar part that I would prefer more in stereo instead of left-panned, but that's personal preference, I guess. And then an ELP sounding synth/sawtooth/whatever that I wished had more volume.

I do like the song, so that always helps...

Now off to the vehicle sound system .

(20 minutes later)

Yes!! The car audio doesn't lie. I'm impressed. Those drums are heaven - I love real drums and miss them sometimes. I still don't think you should lower the bass - really good work there, too.

I agree with Blooby regarding the vocals - you are on your own there. It's your ace in the hole - Fantastic!!!

Now I know how the Beatles felt when they hear Jimi Hendrix for the first time. I would have been the 5th Beatle that said "Where's the rest of the album, I'll catch you guys later..."

Super work!!! I'm a fan!!

Mark

Later,

Mark

[Blooby]

Really like the opening.  What a great Mellotrony flute sound.  What are you using there?

First song in a long time I have replayed immediately upon completion.  This is my favorite post of yours...hands down. 

I find your lead vocals much more pleasing than your last post (I thought the last one was a  bit of a departure from the five you had posted.).  Not to say the last vocals were weak in any way (especially coming from me)...just a different delivery.  Background vocals are definitely a strength here.  You must've known you were on to something (I picture an impish grin while coming up with those).

And I'm absolutely in love with how you're drums are dragging the beat.  Friggin' fantastic.  No amount of drum programming would've sounded this way (Personal note: I'm not crazy about the building drums leading into the chorus, but the background vocals more than make up for it in those sections.). 

Downloading this one to my "Best of BR" folder.

I enjoyed this one so much that I imagine I will live with it for a while and comment again down the road.  Oh, and I find nothing sketchy mix-wise upon first exposure.

Peace.

Blooby

[Bluesberry]

Boscko, I am so glad you posted another for us.  I am honored once again that you are seeking our opinion on a wonderful song of yours.  First lets get the rhythm section out of the way.  It is perfect.  I love those drums, and the bass is in perfect harmony and volume with the drums.  Don't touch the bass, as Mark says.  Damn man those drums are beautiful, powerful, really drives this song along.  The rest of the instruments sound good, the mellotrony thing is great, mixed good, can hear every note of it.  I would prefer the guitar parts a little more prominent, the strumming guitar gets lost sometimes.  Don't take offence Boscko, but there is something with the vocals that are getting to me, they are good and loud, present, good that way, but it is like they are too slow or something.  The drums are really driving this song along and the vocals feel sluggish, behind the drums somehow.  The rest of the instrumentation keeps up with the drums, but that vocal is soooo laid-back.  I  don't know, I have to listen a few more times, it just kinda feels off the beat, which I guess gives it a druggy spaced out feel, if that is what you were going for, but that doesn't really match the lyrical content, maybe I am wrong.  Please tell me if I am full of sh*t Boscko.  Overall I like what i am hearing, it feels like the most Beatles inspired of all the songs I have heard so far.  Great job.

[Bosko Schwartz]

Thanks, Mark!  As for the low end, I only listened to this mix ONCE before posting, and on a stereo that doesn't always do any mix (even commercial recordings) justice, so I very well could be wrong.  You know I do love the bass to be loud.  I usually listen to a mix like 10 times before daring to post, but I felt ballsy this time, what can I say.  Ah, the left-panned tremolo guitar ... yes, it's panned to balance out the right-panned piano/flute/synth.  Don't think I'll change that.  Perhaps I will raise the volume on the keys -- I actually did do that when the synth came in, but maybe not enough.  Funny that both you and Blooby mentioned loving the drums, because I really struggled with them in this song (not playing, just mixing) -- I just couldn't seem to get them to fit into the mix right; and there are still parts in which they aren't as clear as I would like, but it is what it is.  THANK YOU for the props on the drums and the vocals.  I recently re-did the vocals because at first they were a little too Wayne Coyne at the out-of-key end of the spectrum (he's one of my favorite vocalists, but he can really get out of key sometimes) and after re-recording them -- for once -- I was actually pretty happy with them.  Ha, you know how to make me smile with those Beatles references.  Thanks again, Mark, I really appreciate it!

Wow, Blooby, Thank You!  Everything you said means a lot!  I'm surprised this would be your favorite, but I bet I have one more that you would like even more than this (teaser) ...  The flute sound is the "Tron Flute" patch on my Roland Juno-D synth with almost no tweaking.  Not sure what "Tron" refers to, but I named one of my songs "Tron" just because the sound alone inspired me to write an intro -- maybe I'll post that one soon.  It's one of my favorite sounds in the world; I used it all over the album, including two others I posted here.  I like how it doesn't sound exactly like a real flute.  Thanks so much about the words on the vox -- as I said to Mark, I recently re-recorded them and I was happy with them for once.  And yes, I was fairly proud of the BG vox in the second verse.  I think I still need to tweak the effects on them, though.  No?  Thanks for the drums props as well -- read above for more.  Surprised again that you liked them so much.  Not sure how to get them more clear, but maybe they are fine as is.  Sorry about that buildup, but can't change it now!

Bluesberry, THANK YOU!  You know I always appreciate your words!  Wow, another great comment on the drums; I am baffled!  Not sure what you mean about the vox being too "slow," but would love to improve them in the mix if I could somehow -- especially the BG vox, as I mentioned.  You're definitely not full of shit, but I would like to get to the bottom of the problem with the vox, if there is one!  You just mean the way I am singing?  Let's figure it out.  I thought this was the least Beatles sounding of any of my songs, but hey, I will take ANY Beatles-oriented compliment any day of the week!  Thanks again, BB!

Thanks again to all three of you -- comments like this really keep me driven!

[Oldrottenhead]

im only 30 secs in and i love it wow im 40 secs in it just gets better ive sound down low am pissed as a fart and just back from the pub trying not wake the household love the quiet loud thing going on this is awesome one for the car, this has confidence written all over it, i will never question your confidence ever again awesome reminds me of grandaddy

[Bluesberry]

I don't know, it is mainly in the two sections 1:09-1:50 and 2:29-3:20, in these two sections the drums are really driving, pounding, and I am listening to the drums, and the vocals feel very stoned-out, behind the drums, it feels sluggish to me (the vocals), like like you are laying on the floor with opium smoke swirling around you,  You give Pink Floyd a run for the money for stoned out sounding vocals in those two sections, it just feels to me that the singing is slightly slow compared to those driving drums.  Unless of course that is the feel you were trying to get, in which case it is perfect.  It makes me feel a little edgy or something, those two sections, makes me feel a little stoned myself and time is slowing down or something.  It is hard to put into words the feeling I get from those two sections.  Maybe I am full of sh*t.  You will got a lot more comments as the night turns into day. maybe nobody else has this reaction, in which case it will be official that I am full of sh*t, and you can ignore my ramblings.

[Bosko Schwartz]

Thanks, James (ORH), you are hilarious!   Always appreciate your listening and your comments!

BB, I definitely didn't want the vox to make you feel edgy, but the Pink Floyd -- and opium filled room -- comparison is favorable to me.  I did record them very low, and I guess you could say that yes, I did want them to sound that way.  Not sure how mellow and trippy equates to edgy, though ...

Have a few more listens and let me know if it grows on you!  The last thing I want is my music to make people feel edgy!

[Ferryman]

Bosko, another great one. No great problems with the mix for me, I think it all depends what you are looking for. The mix at the moment is quite dominated by the bass (which is quite bass end heavy but not in a bad way) and the lovely clattery stereo drums (I just LOVE the way you recorded the drums). I love prominent bass and clattery drums, so it works well for me. But if you weren't going for the Steve Lillywhite sound then you might want to consider revising it a bit.

Backing vox seem fine to me, but if you want a "lusher" feel you might want to bring them up a bit. The only niggle for me is that the intro is a bit sudden and the levels a tad high - there's a lot going on there and it piles straight into it which kind of made me jump. It seems a bit more dominant compared to the first vocal section. But it's a pretty minor niggle.

Overall, I love it, it's many faceted and has great dynamics. And those drums are to die for, just fantastic.

BTW, all this listened to on Sennheisers so will take a listne on the cheap "radio mix" speakers when the family is up.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Bosko Schwartz]

Thanks, Nigel!   Always great to hear these types of in-depth comments, especially from someone with such great taste in music!  Well, the consensus is everyone seems to love the drums.  So what did I do on this song that I didn't on the others?  Is it more the recording or simply the beats and/or the playing?  Just curious, because whatever I did, it seemed to work out fairly well, and I want to make sure I can capture it on future recordings.  Yes, I was definitely (and usually am) going for prominent bass and clattery drums!   Steve Lillywhite -- now that's a comparison I hadn't heard before, but I'll take that as a compliment!

I'll probably just use a less heavy effect on the BG vox, now that I think about it.  And maybe less reverb to bring them forward.

The intro niggle is easy to fix and I will definitely do that.  I had purposely raised the master volume during bouncing of that part, thinking it would be too low compared to the rest of the mix; turns out it was fine at the original volume, so I'll fix it.

Thanks again, Nigel!