Come on good people !!!

[IanR]

I'd also like to discuss how we might be able to provide legitimate criticism of peoples' work.  I find that the commentary is mostly positive and where someone needs some direction or advice, we tend not to comment for fear of insulting them.  I think that may be a retrograde approach because unless you get feedback, there is no point participating.  Some newer people may be missing out on learning opportunities because we "ignore" them.

So I hope everyone will continue to offer only positive comments. If you're tempted to tell someone what's wrong with their song, please don't. It's only your opinion based on your own taste. If you can't think of anything positive to say about a song, then skip it and listen to another song instead. There are plenty to choose from and it's easy to find one you like.

I'm not suggesting that we tear each other to shreds. That is not what this site is about.  We often provide advice on recording or mixing techniques and provide constructive comments on song structure and other things.

However, I tend not to comment on songs I don't like, so I guess that's what everyone else is doing too.  If I put up a song and I get no comments, then I guess the site is telling me its a crap song.  This doesn't help me improve at all.  If the more experienced people can't help the newer people then I don't see why they would stick around.  

Anyway, I guess the idea is not popular, so I'll not take it any further.

Ian

[ODH]

If I put up a song and I get no comments, then I guess the site is telling me its a crap song.

That's kind of the way I read it too, fewer comments > cooler reception >  not one of best songs...  There are probably other factors though, like time of posting, how soon the post slips off the radar (i.e. off the front page) etc.  But when a song I post gets little response I do take that to mean it was probably not my best effort.

What I do know though is that I feel my own songwriting / recording / producing has come on leaps and bounds in the 3 years or so I've been here and I'm very happy to have found this forum and am grateful to it.  And a part of that is undoubtedly due to learning to "tailor" songs such that they get more responses.

[Hook]

I'm glad this has come up again and  I agree with you Geir. I post a lot of recordings but I also post on other members songs a lot. I've always had the idea in my head that if I post a song I need to post on at least 2 other songs but I think I far exceed that. I try to leave a post on everything I listen all the way through & I listen at least each week whether I have a song to post or not. It's a community I value for the quality of musicianship & the positive nature of the site.
I haven't searched for other forums much but I did find Homerecording.com & I did join & I do still lurk a bit. However I find it to be lot of pompous, negative in nature & often disrespectful posting. There is quite a bit of really good information but so much ego & aggression that its almost hard to find the info. I don't sign in or post there because I don't really want their opinion. I will lurk for the info & I like to read about recording but this is the only site choose to be a part of.
When I joined I was all about my "music Career" and realized this place wouldn't help (it wont!!!)and I stopped posting after 2 songs. Once my situation changed & I was making this sort of music just for myself I revisited & was hooked. I love listening to others making music in much the same manner & on similar equipment as myself. I've learned, by listening to their music, that the talent here on Song Crafters is overwhelming & am humbled that my fellow members (& many friends) would take time to listen & post on my musings.
In all honesty though there are some members I learn to ignore. I think it is obvious when someone is here for the sole purpose of promoting themselves, their site or blog. I try hard to greet all new members & listen& comment on their first posts. Hopefully they see the communicative nature of the site and join in. I can't stand long commercial type posts from people that think there doing me a favor by sharing their music with me. I'm not here to bless anyone with my tortured art or to grant you the presence of my opinion. I'm here to listen, share, learn & collaborate. I'm  a talk radio guy so this is my music & I'm glad it's here!
Rock On!

[Hook]

If I put up a song and I get no comments, then I guess the site is telling me its a crap song.

That's kind of the way I read it too, fewer comments > cooler reception >  not one of best songs...  There are probably other factors though, like time of posting, how soon the post slips off the radar (i.e. off the front page) etc.  But when a song I post gets little response I do take that to mean it was probably not my best effort.

I think that's putting way to much importance on 4 or 5 responses. Some tunes do fall into the line up & some tunes take a few days to process. If I'm posting 26 stupid cover songs over 6 weeks than that might push other songs onto page 2 (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!) I noticed that at the end of my tirade of peel seesion tunes I was getting less comments & it took longer to get that 1st one, so what. people get tired of me, they listen to others, they don't like the song, they don't like what I did with it, they don't like my ugly monkey avatar...none of really hits the truth of the matter. Are you happy with what you made? The cake is making music, the icing is having a cool place to share it & the comments are icing on the icing!
Rock On!

[Geir]

I hope I haven't stirred things up (again ) My intentions were just get some more activity here, and that I see that a lot of good songs have got far too little attention lately.

But just try to remember .... if you want 10 comments on your song ... well, ... then give at LEAST 10 comments on other peoples music !!!!! If not,  .... it doesn't add up !!!! It's as simple as that !!!!

I would prefer it if people commented on my songs because they enjoyed them and wanted to say something about them to me not because they felt that had some sort of comment quota to fill.

Just to clarify, I don't mean that you must post 10 comments to get 10 comments as some sort of reward system. I simply make an observation that if no one commented on other than their own posts, then no one would get any comments from anyone but them self.  If everybody on the other hand gave 20 comments for each song they posted, then ON AVERAGE each song posted would get 20 comments.

I think that, like in any communities - virtual or "real", the more you give, the more you get.

Thank you all for listening !!!

[Oldrottenhead]

I love this site.

[Tangled Wires]

Been absent from the site for a little while but saw this interesting topic pop up and these are my thoughts...

Everybody has different levels of commitment to this site for whatever reasons. From my point of view commenting is in no way restricted to when I have a song to post, primarily because of my infrequent song posts!  I do understand however why people tend to only comment when they have a song to offer as they are fired up by their own creation, are in "the zone" and at the same time want to check out what others have been producing. Many of us have periods of musical down time where we have little or no inspiration/interest in our own output, let alone others too, and we need a break away from it all.

If I have an hour to spare on here to listen to others songs then I would probably listen to 4-5 songs at most in order that I could listen to each 2-3 times in order to get familiar with it and provide detailed comments describing what I liked about the song and, if applicable, what i felt worked or didn't work as the case may be. If I liked the song I will comment, if it didn't grab me I will not comment, simple as that, and have never feel the need to comment just for the sake of commenting

Being selfish I want to get something out of the site and don't want to skim a couple of minutes of 10 songs and post "Great song" as I am not going to remember it an hour later, and I want to have songs sticking in my head days. weeks and months later. From the song posters point of view the very least I owe them is 10-15 minutes of my time for the hours/days/weeks that they have poured into their creation.

As far as comments go on songs I post here I would much rather have 5 detailed comments on what people liked or felt could be improved on my songs rather than 20 "great song" or "well done" comments. I am not sure that I have ever witnessed a "That was a shit song" comment in the 6 years I have been on this site, but what I have witnessed is a lot of very good and very helpful constructive comments about where a song could be improved. The thing with constructive criticism is that it can often verge on the point of direct criticism if not worded very well, for instance I always find a "in my opinion" or "excellent song, but think that it could be made even better if you did xyz" softens the blow and proves to the song poster that you not only liked the song, and took the time to listen in detail, but at the same time are making positive suggestions to improve it further. In other words constructive criticism, if worded correctly, can turn out to be a far more positive comment in my opinion than just saying "well done" which is pretty meaningless.

I welcome constructive comments on my songs, because as far as I am concerned all of you guys on here are my peers, far more experienced and talented in the art of recording music and I thrive on any tips and suggestions that are offered.

The site has grown so much in the past few years and, in a way, this increase in volume has had a detrimental effect on the number of comments songs get, as it can be very intimidating when faced with a shed load of new songs and knowing which ones to hone in on. Personally speaking I do tend to focus on the established names but do try and make an effort to take time to listen to newer members work to. As Hook pointed out earlier there has been in recent times members join the site with the sole intention of self promotion, and who offer little or any comments on any other posts apart from their own and I think these people are relatively easy to spot and by in large they tend to come and go from the site quite quickly.

As far as I am concerned the site is as supportive as it ever has been and the core values are still being maintained by and large, but the shear number of posts has resulted in a downward trend in the comments to posts ratio

[T.C. Elliott]

I make it a point to give more comments than I receive. I am also one of the in/out people and always will be. I lurk sometimes, participate sometimes, hit tons of comments sometimes, hardly give any sometimes. This place is great and I can't imagine not hanging around but I also participate in other Timed Songwriting Challenges and my daughter is in competitive softball which takes up crazy amounts of time. All of that to say I appreciate this place exists and the people here. I like that I can drop in almost as if I haven't been away whenever I have time. I do realize that it would be better to be a little more consistent and I'm willing to help out here however I can. But sometimes that's simply not possible and sometimes the motivation just goes out the window.

I've written well over 60 songs a year over the past 8 years (over 100 some years) and I don't post them all here because I respect the time the kind folks here give and I think the community thrives better without the spam of speed written songs (unless I really, really like it.) When I did the Song A Week Project in 2010 this place was AMAZING at keeping me motivated.

So yeah, give comments whenever you can. Give detailed comments whenever possible. And thank the guy or gal next to you for helping to make this place great. There aren't too many sites in the WWW that support each other like this place does.

Special thanks to 64 and the rest of the Moderators. For keeping this place going and for putting up with all of our crap. Hopefully most of the time it's enjoyable.

[kenny mac]

I think The world of this site,I enjoy the comments I read and the Collaberation with the members is my favourite thing.
I've lost count how many songcrafters I've had the pleasure of working with.
I've heard some outstanding renditionds of classic songs ,redone and sounding fresh.
My ipod is bursting with songcrafter music.
When I'm needing a boost or feeling down I listen to hooks version of Birdhouse in your soul and I'm back up again,I was swimming the other day with my mp3 waterproof headset on and old rottenheads version of satisfaction came on and I was like,,,,hell yeh that's what im talking about,Tangled wires are never off my playlist and Geirs call to meet in karis hut still gives me goosebumps.
I could go on all day as there are so many songcrafters that flow in and out of my ears everyday that click in someway with me.There is a time when you drift away for a while,but that's just other things in life getting a share of you,but my point is,every single day wether I'm commenting or visiting I listen everyday to the guys and girls on this site regular because I actually prefer the stuff on here to the stuff that's out there professionally.
Let's keep it positive regarding comments,it keeps the family feel vibe alive