Alesis SR16

[chip]

Hi. I'm rather confused with all this talk of clocks. BPM is a global time is it not?

What I am saying is. The Kaossilator 2 can match exactly the BPM of the BR80. I can have the drums playing on the BR80 ( here is what you may be telling me that's impossible) I can jump in with the Kaos 2, get the timing right hit the pad and it will be perfectly in time with the BR all day long, I can even add a fill and all sorts of stuff and it still remains in time. Are you perhaps saying that. If I was to put fills in the pattern on the BR80 then use the SR16 to improvise over the top even though they are both using the same global BMP it wouldn't work?

 The clock scenario doesn't seem to bother the Kaositator, that's the confusing part of the clock talk, in fact I am totally confused by the clock

[cuthbert]

Sorry chip, I didn't mean to cause any confusion on the issue.

Hi. I'm rather confused with all this talk of clocks. BPM is a global time is it not?

BPM is a fixed number of beats per minute. However, there's nothing locking together 120 bpm on your BR-80 with 120 bpm on SR-16. So unless you start playback on both devices at exactly the same time, there will be some kind of timing offset between the two devices, as each plays 120 bpm in its own merry way.

It sounds like you are manually starting playback on both devices, but that's not locked-in timing. Any slight timing difference in start times between the devices will remain. But that's not the case with MIDI control - one device has the master clock (usually the recorder or sequencer), and the other MIDI-connected device gets its timing from the master. There are no slight timing differences possible in this scenario. That's what you can't do with the BR-80, because it has no MIDI support.

Hope that makes it clearer.

[bruno]

I looked at drum machines a while ago, and the size of the samples is tiny by modern standards - that kind of put me off - I think they are really old technology, and not for the better. I swear by betmonkeyloops - I generally dislike drum machines - unless you are proper drummer (like Rata-ta-tat) it never really sounds natural. Some of the modern software drum machines are very, very good - but doesn't solve the playing live problem (can do, but PC's are generally a mare).

[AndyR]

Also, Chip (following on from Cuthbert's last one), yes 120 bpm is 120 beats per minute.

But the thing is, this is NOT a universal standard... because of the fundamental question - how long is a minute?

The answer is, it depends how fast "time" is running on the thing you're measuring it with.

If my minutes are slightly shorter than yours, my 120 bpm will be slightly faster than yours - so I'll finish the song before you do...

It all depends on what time-piece we're using.

Both machines have their own clocks to establish how fast time is running. Unfortunately there is no guarantee that two clocks are running at exactly the same speed.

This means, in a worst case scenario, even if you start off both machines right on-the-nose together, by the end of the song they could sound out of synch. In practice, nowadays, it's probably hardly noticable over a 3-4 minute song (I don't know, I haven't tried to synch things like this for ages because it can be well nigh impossible to do it) but it'll still be there and affect the feel of the song.

The solution is to get both machines to use the same clock - tell one machine to ignore its own clock and to obtain its idea of how fast time is running from the other machine. The way it's done is through MIDI. And, like Cuthbert says, you've got the added advantage of them both starting exactly in the same place on the word "Go!"

====

Thinking about bruno's post too, yeah, I suspect you can get better samples now. But I have to admit I loved the samples on the SR-16, and their response to note velocity. It felt like playing with a real drummer. I never used it as a drum machine (except for a click to jam with sometimes). I used it as a sound-source and programmed the drum patterns in the DAW. Then the DAW would play the SR-16 during playback.

When I switched to the MBR, I stopped using the SR-16 and went with the MBR's patterns. You couldn't edit those, you just took what you got - but they actually seemed to sound better (for me) than the SR-16.

On the BR1600, I love how you can edit the patterns and create your own. BUT... even though it's apparently the same kits as the MBR, the BR1600's drums sound less satisfying to me than the MBR's did.

There's been several times I've thought that I ought to get the SR-16 out again, figure out how to wire it up to the BR1600 and see whether it did sound as good as I remember. One big plus would be mixing control over the individual drums - that would be a HUGE plus for me now.

But, yeah, I guess, probably newer software options would give better sounds now.

[chip]

Sorry chip, I didn't mean to cause any confusion on the issue.

Hi. I'm rather confused with all this talk of clocks. BPM is a global time is it not?

BPM is a fixed number of beats per minute. However, there's nothing locking together 120 bpm on your BR-80 with 120 bpm on SR-16. So unless you start playback on both devices at exactly the same time, there will be some kind of timing offset between the two devices, as each plays 120 bpm in its own merry way.

It sounds like you are manually starting playback on both devices, but that's not locked-in timing. Any slight timing difference in start times between the devices will remain. But that's not the case with MIDI control - one device has the master clock (usually the recorder or sequencer), and the other MIDI-connected device gets its timing from the master. There are no slight timing differences possible in this scenario. That's what you can't do with the BR-80, because it has no MIDI support.

Hope that makes it clearer.

I see. That's what I was trying to say. I can get them both started exactly as I want manually, in fact I have just come down from the music room and have had the BR80 150 bpm  rock something with the Kaossilator 2 in perfect time, the latter  using a techno beat at 150bpm. I then started adding loop (lots of them) to the Kaos including arp and it was all still in time 30 mins later. Perhaps I have some kind of magic timing, I seem to able to jump in and out without it all going out of time.

 To add to my continuing nightmare I have just acquired a Apple Mac book ( not new but my daughter only used it for uni, it's about 6 years old in immaculate condition) which got me thinking about computer recording etc.  I reckon I might still give the sr 16 a go, but, and it's a big but. What do I do about the Apple?

Anyway before I go off and get a sr16. Has anyone got one they want to part with or swap for a Monotron or something?

And having got used to using BR's. Do I really want to immerse myself into using computers and clocks :-)?

[64Guitars]

Anyway before I go off and get a sr16. Has anyone got one they want to part with or swap for a Monotron or something?

As cuthbert mentioned in the BR-800 vs BR-80 topic, Songcrafters has a strict policy against advertising in the public forums, which includes trades. You're welcome to discuss anything you like in private messages. But in the public forums, please do not mention any gear swaps. We don't want the forums to degrade into buy/sell/trade discussions. There are plenty of other sites on the internet for that. Sorry, but we feel that it's important to nip this in the bud before it sets a precedent and people start to think that it's acceptable.

Of course, the discussion of the SR16 or any other gear is welcome. So please feel free to continue with that. Just please don't mention any buying, selling, or trading. Thanks.

[chip]

Anyway before I go off and get a sr16. Has anyone got one they want to part with or swap for a Monotron or something?

As cuthbert mentioned in the BR-800 vs BR-80 topic, Songcrafters has a strict policy against advertising in the public forums, which includes trades. You're welcome to discuss anything you like in private messages. But in the public forums, please do not mention any gear swaps. We don't want the forums to degrade into buy/sell/trade discussions. There are plenty of other sites on the internet for that. Sorry, but we feel that it's important to nip this in the bud before it sets a precedent and people start to think that it's acceptable.

Of course, the discussion of the SR16 or any other gear is welcome. So please feel free to continue with that. Just please don't mention any buying, selling, or trading. Thanks.

That's fine 64. I knew that but had forgotten, I sort of got carried away in the heat of the moment so to speak.

[chip]

So, I got a used SR16 and as you quite rightly pointed out and I completely ignored, the clock is not the same. So I now have the machine and I now don't know what to do about it or with it.

 I suppose I can use it on it's own for recording with the BR80, I have only played with it for half an hour so can't evaluate anything as yet. When I get back after a short interlude this afternoon I will dig in and see what's what.