Any opinions on the Fostex MR8

[Hook]

So I've made a very impulsive bid on ebay thinking this recorder might serve my purposes. It's the red Fostex MR8 & comes with a 2g cf card & I have a bunch of 1g cards from my br900. Its pretty small (looked at one in a pawn shop today) & I think it will fit right into the case I call my studio. It can run on 6AA, but I can't find any time expectancy. I figure I'll have 12 charged up every day and plug in at home. It can record 2 tracks simultaneous (the feature I want the most!!) & has some effects, I always have my mbr & pso2 to use for effects also.
 It doesn't have any V tracks but it does have usb so I'm assuming I can bounce the tracks then export the individual tracks and then add more to the bounce pretty much indefinitely.
What I can't tell from perusing the manual is how the mix/mastering procedure works. the manual talks about needing to use the digital out to a dat machine or a cd recorder, can you not just mix & master on the machine?? Can I  somehow use audacity if that is the case? Perhaps I once again have bought a machine that will only piss me off? If i win it will be for $50 so no big loss but I really want to be able to record 2 tracks simultaneously. I'm  hoping to be able to plug in my uke & use the on board mic to get a live uke/vocal track & a clean uke track like I used to on the 900.
If anyone has any experience with this machine or just an opinion I love to hear it!
Rock On!

[64Guitars]

Fostex is a reputable company and made some excellent multitrack recorders (though they no longer make any). Compared to the Boss BR series, the biggest limitations are the effects (limited or nonexistent), drum machine (limited or nonexistent), and the lack of v-tracks in some models.

Its pretty small (looked at one in a pawn shop today) & I think it will fit right into the case I call my studio.

Dimensions are 283 (W) x 215 (D) x 65 (H) mm. In the antiquated U.S. system of measurement, that's about 11.14 inches wide by 8.5 inches deep by 2.56 inches high.

comes with a 2g cf card & I have a bunch of 1g cards from my br900.

I'm not sure if the 2GB card will work to full capacity. I have a hunch that it's limited to 1GB like the older BR series recorders.

Here's what Fostex says about card size in the MR8 Data Sheet document:

"Q: What is the maximum CompactFlash (CF) card the MR-8 will accept?
 A: Currently there is no limitation to the maximum size CF the MR-8 will recognize. At the moment the limitation is dependednt upon current technology of the media"

At the time the MR8 was made (circa 2003 ?), I think the limit of "current technology" was probably 1GB.

The MR8 uses FAT16 (VFAT) which is similar to what's used in the older BR series and would have similar limits. However, the exact maximum addressable storage depends on the sector size and the number of sectors per cluster. A 2GB limit is possible but I think 1GB is more likely.

It can run on 6AA, but I can't find any time expectancy.

I found the following in the MR8 Data Sheet document:

"Q: How much time do I get of 6 AA battreries
 A: Just over 2 hours (normal use)"

I figure I'll have 12 charged up every day and plug in at home.

I'm not sure if rechargeable NiMH batteries will work well. The trouble is that they're only 1.2 volts each and the MR8 is designed for alkaline batteries which are 1.5 volts. Since it requires 6 batteries, that will leave it 1.8 volts shy of the required 9 volts total (6 x 1.5). It might still work, but perhaps not for very long between charges. And the low voltage could cause problems writing to the memory card.

It can record 2 tracks simultaneous (the feature I want the most!!)

I'm not sure what you mean. The BR series and most any other multitrack recorder can also record 2 tracks simultaneously. The question is whether those 2 tracks can be fed from separate inputs (a guitar on one track and a mic on the other, for example). Most of the BRs (though not all) have a SIMUL mode which allows this. Where the BRs are limited is in the use of effects on those two inputs. Normally, the BR only lets you apply insert effects to one input. There is a special SIMUL patch bank which gives you separate effects for guitar and vocals, but those effects are quite limited compared to the normal insert effects available in the other patch banks.

The MR8 allows you to record from two inputs (input A and input B) to two separate tracks simultaneously. There's no SIMUL effects patch bank so I'm not sure if you can apply effects independently to both inputs. It's probably a non-issue though because the MR8's effects are very limited to begin with.

It doesn't have any V tracks but it does have usb so I'm assuming I can bounce the tracks then export the individual tracks and then add more to the bounce pretty much indefinitely.

There are no v-tracks and no separate bounce destination. That means you always have to reserve two tracks for your bounce destination. Therefore, on the first pass of recording, you're limited to only six tracks. You would then bounce those six tracks to 7/8 and delete tracks 1 through 6 so you can record more tracks. However, at this point you can only record four more tracks because you don't want to overwrite your mix on 7/8 and you have to reserve 5/6 as the bounce destination. You can then erase tracks 1 through 4 and record four more tracks. But that's the end of the road as far as bouncing on the MR8. So the total number of tracks you could record is 14. But, as you said, you could export your individual tracks and mixes to the computer using Fostex's WavManager software. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be any way to export a mix of all 8 tracks. You can only export individual tracks, as far as I can tell. That means you'd have to load your tracks into Audacity or some other DAW and mix them down to a stereo pair. You could then import that stereo pair back into the MR8 on tracks 7/8 and record some new stuff on tracks 1 through 6.

What I can't tell from perusing the manual is how the mix/mastering procedure works. the manual talks about needing to use the digital out to a dat machine or a cd recorder, can you not just mix & master on the machine?? Can I  somehow use audacity if that is the case?

There doesn't seem to be any way to export the stereo mix, which is very surprising. So you have two choices. You could record the signal from the STEREO OUT or DIGITAL OUT jacks to another recorder. Or you could export your individual tracks and sub-mixes (bounce destinations) to the computer and do your final mixing in Audacity or another DAW. There doesn't appear to be any way to mix all of your individual tracks and sub-mixes on the MR8 alone.

Perhaps I once again have bought a machine that will only piss me off? If i win it will be for $50 so no big loss but I really want to be able to record 2 tracks simultaneously. I'm  hoping to be able to plug in my uke & use the on board mic to get a live uke/vocal track & a clean uke track like I used to on the 900.

Despite all of the limitations of the MR8, it's still a very good recorder. I wouldn't want one as my only multitrack recorder, but for the right price, it might be nice to have as an additional recorder. You might like it for some things (recording uke and vocal, for example), but you probably won't want to use it all the time. If you get used to doing your final mixes in Audacity or some other DAW, then it's easy to record some tracks on one recorder and other tracks on another recorder, then export them all to the computer for final mixing in the DAW.


Archived product info:
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/archive_products/MR-8.shtml

Manuals, data sheet, etc.:
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/tech_support/manuals.shtml

Firmware update (ver. 1.21) and WavManager software:
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/tech_support/multitracker_software_updates.shtml

[Hook]

Thanks 64, you have confirmed much of what I thought. The rechargeable battery issue is unfortunate but we will see. As far as the 2 track simultaneous recording goes, I often like to start a song with a live take. On my 900 I could plug in my guitar/uke into track 1 & also get a a live mic recording on track 2. That way if I got the rythm part down but my vocal clipped or just wasn't up to par I still had the good rythm track and only had to re record the vocals. I also like to put effects on the uke/guitar & get the clean acoustic sound from the mic track so I don't have to go back and play an additional rythm track. I'm pretty sure that I cannot do that on the mbr or the br80. Upgrading to the 800 just isn't in the cards right now, hence the impulsive bid which it looks like I will win .

The mixdown procedure is still confusing me. So if I have a stereo bounce on say 7/8 of my tune I can't just export that off the MR8 onto the computer? I do realize that this isn't the ideal machine but judging from all the reviews (pretty old reviews granted) it doesn't sound to terrible. I have about 4 1g cards and I do think it will fit into my studio case nicely. If I get 2 hours out of my rechargeable batteries (I know wishful thinking) that would be workable

Out of curiosity, why would I be limited to 14 tracks. If I record tracks 1-6 & bounce them to 7/8 then export (or erase) 1-6 cant I then record 1-4 mix with 7/8 onto 5/6 then export (erase) 1-4 & 7/8 and continue this process for ever? It's not really too limiting for me anyhow since I don't often go much higher than 8-10 tracks usually.

Really I think I won't be happy until I've tried all the multitracks out there but I always end up realizing the Boss machines really are superior.
Thanks again for the info 64!
Rock On!

[64Guitars]

The mixdown procedure is still confusing me. So if I have a stereo bounce on say 7/8 of my tune I can't just export that off the MR8 onto the computer?

Yes, you can export just tracks 7 and 8. And that's fine if you've only recorded 6 tracks and bounced them to 7/8. The problem comes when you need more than 6 tracks because the MR-8 doesn't seem to have any way of mixing tracks 7/8 with your other tracks. So you'd have to export 7/8 plus any additional tracks individually and mix them on the computer.

Alternatively, you could record the signal from STEREO OUT or DIGITAL OUT on another recorder. That signal is a mix of all of the tracks, including any bounces on 5/6 or 7/8. But there doesn't seem to be any way to export that signal to a WAV file, so the only way to capture it is to record it from the STEREO OUT or DIGITAL OUT jacks to another recorder.

Out of curiosity, why would I be limited to 14 tracks. If I record tracks 1-6 & bounce them to 7/8 then export (or erase) 1-6 cant I then record 1-4 mix with 7/8 onto 5/6 then export (erase) 1-4 & 7/8 and continue this process for ever? It's not really too limiting for me anyhow since I don't often go much higher than 8-10 tracks usually.

The problem is that there doesn't appear to be any way to mix 7/8 with any of the other tracks. It has two bounce modes - "1-6 > 7/8" and "1-4 > 5/6". The first mode bounces tracks 1 through 6 to tracks 7/8. The second mode bounces tracks 1 through 4 to tracks 5/6. Note that this second mode bounces only tracks 1 through 4. It doesn't include tracks 7/8. So you end up with one mix on 7/8 (the first 6 tracks) and another mix on 5/6 (the next 4 tracks). That's a total of 10 tracks in 2 mixes. You can then re-use tracks 1 through 4, giving you a total of 14 tracks. But there's no way to mix tracks 1 through 4 with the two mixes on 5/6 and 7/8. So you'd have to export all 8 tracks individually and mix them on the computer. See the example on page 42 of the MR-8 manual.

Personally, I'd prefer to do all of the mixing on the computer. I'd record tracks 1 through 8 and export them individually to the computer. Then I'd import those 8 tracks into a DAW and mix them. I'd export that mix to a stereo WAV file and import it to tracks 7/8 of the MR-8. Then I'd delete the first 6 tracks from the MR-8 and record 6 more tracks while monitoring the first mix from 7/8. When done recording, I'd export the 6 individual tracks to the computer. Then I'd load those 6 tracks plus the first 8 tracks into a DAW and mix them. I'd export that mix from the DAW to a stereo WAV file and import it to tracks 7/8 on the MR-8, replacing the first mix. While monitoring this new mix, I could add more stuff on tracks 1 through 6. And so on.

[Hook]

So I won the auction I guess I'm happy. 
Alright if it's 7/8 that's the problem can't I just copy 7/8 to 5/6 and then continue my process over and over again. the manual seems to show that I can but I don't know and I won't until I get it.  I want to avoid any other type recorder in in the mix down chain. I do imagine multi-tracking a song entirely on the MR eight and then perhaps mastering the stereo track on the MBR and then finishing it audacity.  I also imagine recording uke & uke /vocal tracks on the mr8 & moving them to the MBR to finish out the song. I'm just not a fan of working musically on my computer much. It's not a technology thing as much as it's an atmosphere thing. I'm also excited about having faders so we'll see if I if I truly miss the Fader or if it's just the idea of the fader I like.
As always thanks for hashing this out with me 64.
Rock on!

[64Guitars]

Alright if it's 7/8 that's the problem can't I just copy 7/8 to 5/6 and then continue my process over and over again.

Good idea. I hadn't thought of that. There is a Track Move function, so you could bounce tracks 1 through 6 to 7/8, then move 7/8 to 5/6. Then you could record more stuff on tracks 1 through 4 and bounce 1 through 6 (including the first mix on 5/6) to 7/8. That way, tracks 7/8 would always contain a mix of everything after each bounce. And you could repeat the procedure as many times as necessary for an unlimited number of tracks. Of course, once you delete tracks to record more stuff, you can't get those original tracks back if you want to remix. So you should always export your individual tracks to the computer before you delete them. Then if the mix gets messy and you want to redo it, you can bring the original tracks back into the MR-8 and remix them.

I'm just not a fan of working musically on my computer much. It's not a technology thing as much as it's an atmosphere thing.

I agree. But I make a distinction between recording tracks and mixing them. When you're recording tracks, the emphasis is on the music and you don't want computers getting in the way. That's where standalone multitrack recorders are ideal. But when you're mixing, the music is already finished and you can concentrate on the more technical task of editing and mixing those tracks. I find it more convenient to do that on the computer.

[Farrell Jackson]

Hi hook. Since you've already purchased the MR8 this might not matter but it could be helpful to understand it''s limitations.  Here's a link to the drawbacks of the MR8.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/213407/thread/1037987236/last-1055533871/fostex+mr-8+drawbacks

As you might know my main recorder is a Fostex VF160 that I've had for years. It keeps on working flawlessly and I use it a lot. It's one of the first generation versions of Fostex's 16 track digital machines and from my experience and other reviews I've read..it's a good one. I don't think the MR8 and MR16 are as durable plus they have less features.

Good luck with the "new to you" MR8 recorder.

Farrell

[Hook]

Thanks Farrell, I enjoyed reading that forum from 10 years ago. I dig that they are comparing it to the pso2 which I have and to be quite honest it would be the bomb if it wasn't for the smart media card. It was easy to use, good effects & sounded great.
I'm not at all worried about the compact flash card issue, 1g will be plenty and I'm crossing my fingers for 2g.

The battery issue could prove to ruin my Nissan Sentra Studios  applications but I think I will still benefit from having another machine, I really miss my BR900 & would consider it again (there on ebay) but it's just too big for the car and not what I really want for my home studio, that should be the DP24 .

The no phantom power could prove to be an issue. Is the "Plug In Power" on the MBR phantom power? I ask because I'm not sure if my Sony Stereo Mic needs phantom power. I'm actually hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the on board mic but also ready for disappointment. The pso2 is actually a pretty good mic but the vocal effects are a bit over the top, I could also use the MBR as a mic.

The complaint about virtual tracks is gone, it seems to me with the usb connection (lack of one is another reason the pso2 just doesn't cut it) to back up tracks and the bounce features I should always be able to clear 4 mono tracks to record on & mix into the previous bounce  indefinitely.

Lack of effects is an issue but I can use both the ps02 & the MBR as effect processors with little effort.

Lack of EQ does indeed suck but I have none on the MBR either & I don't have a good ear for EQ anyway. I try to record the sound I want.

I'm excited to recording with a new machine, I really hope I can get 2 hours with rechargeable batteries. I surely don't think this will be anywhere close to the MBR or any of the Boss units but at $52 it's worth a go.

I agree. But I make a distinction between recording tracks and mixing them. When you're recording tracks, the emphasis is on the music and you don't want computers getting in the way. That's where standalone multitrack recorders are ideal. But when you're mixing, the music is already finished and you can concentrate on the more technical task of editing and mixing those tracks. I find it more convenient to do that on the computer.

I get that man but I guess I don't make that distinction. I mix & remix as I lay the tracks. I don't mind the bouncing...but I wouldn't mind a little less. I don't really feel like this machine is a true 8 track (I know your argument 64 & technically your right) but I think I'll like having the 4 mono & 2 stereo tracks vs the 4 MBR tracks.

Thanks again for your help.
Rock On!