when you begin recording a song, do you have any idea as to what it'll be like?

[Oldrottenhead]

okay, first off, i have songs in my head that will never come out 'cause of my limited musical abilities.

okay got that off my chest.

when i begin a new song, i have no inkling as to what the end product will be.

i ask this query as it appears to me that a lot of you guys actually know what you are doing. i am thinking, greeny, hooper , andyr.
it's like they have a fully conceived idea in their head before they even hit record for the first time.

me, i might have a few words or a new chord, but when i hit record, your guess is good as mine as to what will happen and where things might go.

just asking.

[fenderbender]

Great question James
Me -I start off with--
If its my own song

I look at the song as if I was in a band

Drums and bass (I use chordpulse 9 times out of 10 for that)
so I have the bare bones of the backer -
then I will add acoustic guitar track -pan it to the left
add an electric guitar track-pan to the right
then try the vocals -maybe tear it apart -
try it in a different key
I might just say sxxxittt after all that
go back to basics and try it in a different beat/ rythmn
and then maybe it could end up as a totally different song-but using the same lyrics
for me it's a kinda hit and miss thing

good luck in your quest

Tommy

[phantasm777]

typically I just improvise cause I have so many ideas, I just get them out. always start with a guitar and go from there. often by the time I am done it sounds fairly different from what I started but not completely.
so far I do not conceive a whole song in my head before I make it. I take ideas, riffs and put them together, sometimes stopping if I don't like it and removing a riff and making another one till I feel the song is long enough.
I kind of like and am inspired by the mystery of it all as it evolves cause in most cases it turns out better from the basic riffs. sort of like outlining a picture (original riff) and then filling in the colors and hues (other instruments).

[T.C. Elliott]

yeah, it completely depends. Most of the time I'm just playing along or singing to myself and something grabs my attention so I play with it till a song is born. However, I'm currently in the midst of a challenge to write ten tracks or so of hickabilly music. I've got three written (one a co-write) but recording them is a pain as I'm forcing myself to use the BR-1600CD in order to learn it. And learn it I will... maybe. Anyway, back on topic, I made a list of titles and I know the genre ahead of time, so it's a bit more pigeonholed than usual.

Now the arrangement is another question. Do I know the arrangement by the time the song is done? Sometimes I know I want to do a rock song or I start with drums and then add bass and rocking guitars etc, but most of the time it is only after the song is written or close to it that I start thinking of the arrangement, of the instrumentation and possibly adding sections of intros or solos or bridges (if it doesn't already have one) etc.  Very rarely I'll write to a structure. I love writing songs with palindrome structures, but it's hard to make work. (The structure would be the same forward as back) such as V, Ch, Bridge, Ch V.  That is a somewhat odd structure if you think about it. How much fun is it to do that and make it work?

[thetworegs]

I'm exactly like you Jim I haven't a clue what I'm going to doing when I start but something will click and I take it from there. When I get the music down if you an call it that as I feel limited in my musianship, although I'm learning something new all the time. I have a listen and that will give me the idea for the lyric along. sometimes looking around the room at the bookshelves to grab a word here or there from a book title to get me started if I'm a bit dry on words or ideas will help. I'm amazed by people who know what they are going to do before they start......there that's my tuppence  worth...

[Hilary]

I usually write the words first and then set it to music. My recordings are usually just so I don't forget what I've written. I try not to go with the songwriting conventions, ie major root, iv, v - minor ii, iii, vi and vii ie
C F G, Dm Em Am Bm (in C major). Sometimes I just pick up the guitar and see what comes out (as in Happy Anniversary). As far as production goes, I totally suck at it and hope if I ever got in a position where it actually mattered, I could pay someone to do it

(Oh I should mention, most of my comedy stuff is really simple in chord structure because I have to concentrate so hard on performing.)

[Farrell Jackson]

I fall in the category of having a complete song in mind before I hit the record button. The structure and some production ideas worked out in my head in advance. The ear candy fills, to sweeten it up, come later. That happens after I get the basics recorded. About 99% of the time I have a good idea what the song will sound like in the end but now and then I get surprised when I start subtracting things. I always write with a guitar in hand (acoustic or electric) and try to get a melody/lyric idea as I'm working on the chord structure. My typical song includes verses, a chorus, solo of some sort and a bridge but in no particular order. I start by structuring a song as though I'm going to perform it solo and live. So I have a complete solo song with just rhythm guitar and lead vocal which I rehearse until I have it engrained on my brain. During this process the lyric 1st verse and chorus will usually present themselves. After I'm comfortable with what I have then I'll write the other verses and a bridge if there's a spot for one. Most times the beginning and ending are done after I get the basics recorded. If I have a production idea that is out of my skill set, I call upon my musical friends to help me out. That, in a nutshell, is how I do it most times.

Farrell

[AndyR]

Long answer:

I have been known to write and record at the same time (eg Cobwebs), but it's not usual for me. And even then, the moment the first riff or whatever is in place, I can "hear" the sort of song it's going to be.

Most of the time, though, all my writing happens well away from any recording equipment. I write with an instrument, my voice, and a pad and pen. The instrument might change in the middle sometimes, but usually it's an acoustic guitar. When the song's finished, especially if I need to leave it for a while, I might do a quick live demo on the MBR.

Now, the thing is, when I write a song, I'm writing it to perform it. It is complete, and I can usually play it with just me and the original instrument. When I perform it like that, I can I can "hear" in my head the "band" or whatever that accompanies the singer (I can hear and see the audience, as well, btw! ).

It was always like that when I was writing for a band. Taking the thing to the band then became a battle to get them to play what I could "hear". The thing would evolve in rehearsals, as everyone worked out what was meant to be going on. Sometimes it came out close to what I wanted, sometimes not. Sometimes I even wanted to withdraw the song from the band by the time I could see how they were insisting on butchering it.

So, nowadays, when I arrive at the recording machine, it's like taking it to the band. Except the band is me.

All the early part of the recording process is like the rehearsals. I whack down a click (if we're using drums). Then I do a guide vocal and a guide whatever the writing instrument was - that's akin to how I used to "play a new song" during a coffee/fag break in band rehearsals. If someone liked it, people would start playing. So, now, if I like the guide stuff, I'll start playing. Otherwise it goes back on the back burner, or back to the pad and pen sometimes.

I already know where all the verses, choruses, and other bits are. How long they are and how many bars there are between sections. This structure very rarely changes once I get the guides down. I pretty much feel like there's no point committing anything to tape until I know what will work (song structure) for the audience.

Basically, after that, all the early recording process is like band rehearsals - people learning their parts, and other people's parts, and how they fit together. If I "know" of a part - eg main electric guitar rhythm, I'll whack a rough one of that down quickly. If there are important vocal harmonies, I might whack rough versions of those down first (so that no-one else walks on their territory). Everyone is working around everyone else to support the main game-plan - a decent backing for the singer to deliver the song.

For example, I start rehearsing and recording bass quite early on - I regard song arrangement as "vocal, bass, and drums", the rest is filling. I'm writing the bass part to go with the vocal and the drums. So, this could alter the click track the "drummer" needs to play. I'm happy to go for a guide bass and then go back to messing with guitar parts. I might stick rough keyboard parts on just to see what the sounds are like, and to help guitarists choose their amp models.

Sooner or later, though, I can hear what the band is meant to be doing to satisfy what I could "hear" when I was writing. Then it's a matter of choosing the right sounds, learning the parts (if necessary!) and then playing them.

I'm nearly always aiming at creating a recording that reflects the imaginary "live ensemble" that I played along with while writing the thing in the first place.

It's not trying to imitate a "live" recording, it's trying to imitate the studio recording that you'd make of that band. I'm always thinking that if these musicians were to play it live, could they actually reproduce a recognisable version without backing-tracks etc on stage?

====
In a way, even the acoustic recordings are like this.

How would I produce a studio recording of the live guy's song? The answer, for me, is - record what he does, then see what's missing for joe public listening on his/her radio/stereo/whatever. So I maybe add another guitar part, or a bass, or some percussion.

Whatever it takes to turn it into a listenable track for joe public. And what that really means is turn it into the best vehicle for getting the song across to a non-musician. Live, they'd accept one git and his git for four/five minutes and go "hey that's cool". Tape just that and, except for some special songs/genres sometimes, most listeners will get subconsciously bored come second verse - I do myself. I don't want that to happen to my song, so I try to figure out how to keep the listener with me.

But whatever I add to any recording, I still want the listener to think they're listening to a solo artist, a solo artist with some tasteful backing, a groovy little beat-combo, whatever the original song suggested in my head when I was writing it.
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I have an imaginary band in my head that would go out on imaginary tour with me:

Drums
Bass
Two guitars
Piano player
Organist
Backing Singers

I front the thing, playing guitar or piano as song (or visual performance) requires...
If people aren't need on a song, they sit it out...

The set would be divided into two halves, joined by a section with just me and a guitar (maybe piano now).

Now, THAT'S the band I'm taking into my "studio" everytime I record a song...


Shorter answer: Yes

[Oldrottenhead]

that is pretty much how i imagined you would approach it andy, and it really shows in the quality of all of your songs.

me? i have neither the skill, the patience nor the attention span to attempt anything like that. i get an idea grab whatever instrument or noisemaker is at hand and exorcise the idea/song/noise out of my system and onto my microbr as quickly as possible, then it's straight on to the next song (if you can even call them that).
 sketches, yeah sketches that's what i do.

[AndyR]

It's weird, I imagined what you'd say after I posted. And you've pretty much said it.

One thing I ought to point out - this "band in the head" approach, it's not anything I sat down to learn, or something that I'm using any discipline to apply...

... I'm just bluddy stuck with it, that's what happens!!

Even before I knew how to play bass, for example, I'd be going "nah... that doesn't sound right" to the bassist. "Could you try something like this instead?"

I must have been a nightmare in a band