From Multitrack Recorders to DAWs...

[alfstone]

Hi everybody

Knowing for sure that most people here (me included) have used, use and quite probably will keep on using multitrack recorders such as BR600, BR800, MicroBr and so on, I was wondering...

...since there are lots of DAWs, both in the PCs and Mac worlds (Logic, Reaper, Cubase, just to name the first one coming to mind) which DAW, in your opinion, has the nearest "workflow" to the multitracks quoted above?

Alfredo

[Glenn Mitchell]

Since the BR800 came with Sonar 8.5, I followed up on it and ended up with X1 and I'm having a ball.
Yes it's complicated but IMO the BR800 is very limited for editing and editing is what i really needed.
But, again, IMO the end product is so much better.
The BR800 is amazing in the quality of the FX and bang for the buck, and I still use it and it's presets for an input device for Sonar, but I rarely use it for putting tracks together now. All that cutting and pasting and copying and midi and plugins etc etc.

[T.C. Elliott]

It took me a fairly long time to get a work flow going on my BR900. I still don't know the ends and outs after 4 or 5 years, but I can record stuff. I then use Reaper to mix. It took a while to figure out Reaper and there are a LOT of functions that I could learn to improve my mixing. So what I've learned is that it takes a while to learn whatever it is you use to record and/or mix.  The only other DAW i used was Audacity, which was more simple, but also less powerful.

I can't imagine recording straight into the computer and I can't imagine trying to do all the mixing I currently do in Reaper all on the BR. I know both are possible, but neither sound attractive.

[alfstone]

M_Glenn_M and T.C.Elliott,

I agree totally with both of you. I've been using my BR600 since 2007, and since my first recordings i had the feeling it was a great machine for multi-track recording, but also that the editing part of the stuff needed something different, that I found in softwares such as Audition, T-Racks, izotope Alloy and so on.

My question was though a little different. For those of you who have a great practice with DAWs, is there a DAW *easier* (as for a similar approach and workflow) to be used for someone like us accustomed to multitrack recorders?

Alfredo

[bruno]

So I started on DAWS - and got fed up with Windows downloads, drivers not working, latency, fiddling with ASIO drivers etc. They are great as long as you have a dedicated machine, and its strictly managed - but boy, it was a ball ache. I got to the point where I gave up, and went out and bought the BR-1600. Never looked back. Loosing windows was a step forward - GarageBand on the Mac is very good. But for switch on and play, for capturing the musical moment, for the sound of the amp emulators, and just the overall sound - the Boss wins every time. If you are after the degrees of complexity, and infinite options (well almost) - and you have lots of spare time, then DAWS are for you. Don't me wrong, you can get some fantastic plug-ins, you can also get crap plug ins - and most pro music is DAW based (albeit Mac based) - but for me, for home use - for quick and simple, give me a dedicated unit any day. NB I'm not scared or intimated by technology in any way, I've spent a lifetime designing & developing & supporting Windows and Unix based systems - its just when I want to record, I just don't want to spend two hours before playing a note, coz Mazz has downloaded some dodgy piece of software that introduces a 2 second delay, from strumming the guitar, to the sound coming out of the speaker. Arrrhhhh!

Rant over. My 10c worth ....

B

[64Guitars]

I think the workflow is a bit different between hardware multitrackers and software DAWs because the hardware multitrackers have a limited number of playback tracks while the software DAWs usually don't. So with a BR, for example, you record 8 tracks then bounce. Then you record 6 more tracks and bounce again. And so on. But with a software DAW, you can just keep on recording more tracks without bouncing because you're not limited in how many tracks you can mix at once. Of course, the screen may get a bit cluttered after a while so you might want to bounce some tracks just to reduce the confusion. But it isn't strictly necessary as it would be with a hardware multitracker.

But you probably already knew that. In what way were you hoping to find a DAW that's more like a hardware multitracker? Apart from bouncing, I think the workflow is pretty similar. You record a track then listen to it while recording another. Then you listen to those two tracks while recording a third, and so on. When you've recorded all of your tracks and mixed them as desired, you export that mix to a WAV file.

I suppose one way that a software DAW could be more like a hardware multitracker is in the audience it was intended for. The Boss BR series and Zoom recorders are aimed primarily at bedroom guitarists. An example of a software DAW that's aimed at that same audience is Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro.

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/GuitarTracksPro/



It's limited to 32 tracks, so some bouncing may be required if you record a lot of tracks and multiple takes.

You can buy Guitar Tracks Pro as a separate software product, or you can get it bundled with the Roland V-STUDIO 20.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1100/496



This gives you the best of both worlds since the hardware provides an audio interface with 8 real faders, stereo mics, and COSM effects, but all recording is done on the computer in Guitar Tracks Pro. The hardware has no recording capabilities itself. It's just a control surface and audio interface.

I'm not sure if the version of Guitar Tracks Pro that's bundled with V-STUDIO 20 is the complete version or a limited version. I haven't seen any indication that it's a limited version, but that's something you might want to verify before buying it.

One thing that might not be too good about the V-STUDIO 20 is that its 32 tracks are in four banks of 8 faders. Track Group buttons allow you to select one of the four banks. The trouble is, the faders aren't motorized as far as I know. So, when you switch banks, the fader is in a different physical position than the level for that track in the DAW. When you touch the fader, the level will immediately jump to a new level corresponding to the physical position of the fader. This is a big problem, so you'd end up working with only 8 tracks at a time to avoid the problems of bank switching. I'm very familiar with this problem because my BR-864 has similar bank switching with 8 tracks controlled by 4 faders in two banks. But maybe the Cakewalk software has some special way of dealing with this. For example, perhaps there's a way to temporarily disengage the faders from the software while you adjust them so that they match the positions of the on-screen faders in the DAW. Then when you re-engage the faders, you won't get the big level jump because the physical position of the faders will be very close to the actual level settings for those tracks in the DAW.

Guitar Tracks Pro looks like a nice, easy to use DAW for guitarists. And the V-STUDIO 20 offers many of the advantages of a BR recorder for guitarists who prefer to record with a DAW. Seems like a good combination.

[Oldrottenhead]

i'm with bruno on this one, tho i do use daws from time to time, but usually for mixing or  for creating drum tracks,  never ever for recording. i turn my br on and can get an idea down whilst it's still fresh in my mind. i recently updated to windows 7 on my pc and trying to find a daw that works without fiddling with my soundcard settings, asio setting etc, by the time i get it working i cant be arsed

[64Guitars]

I agree that hardware multitrack recorders are best for recording your tracks. They're portable, easy to operate, and have no fans or hard drives to make a racket that the mics will pick up. They let you concentrate on the music instead of wrestling with computer problems. But once all the tracks are recorded, it's nice to load them into a software DAW for editing and final mixing.

I'll probably always record my tracks to a hardware multitrack recorder. One exception is the new Akai keyboard controller I recently purchased. The whole reason for having it is so that I can control software synths and drums. So it makes sense to record those tracks directly into a DAW. I can then mix those tracks with my guitar and bass tracks which I've exported from the BR.

[Flash Harry]

I have just bought the Behringer BCF2000 which is a control surface for a DAW. I have managed to get rudimentary controls working with Reaper (track faders, pan). Having a physical control makes it easier to operate and probably gives the sort of feel that you get from a multitrack recorder. And it means that I can get rid of my old analog mixer.

[64Guitars]

Cool! I've always wanted one of those. It must be great having those 100mm motorized faders. I've heard they can be a bit noisy and clunky but, for the price, I think I could live with that. Having motorized faders with such a long travel is a nice step up from what we're used to with BRs and other popular multitrack recorders whose faders usually have a short travel. Long travel gives you more precise adjustment, smoother fades, and a much nicer feel. And having them motorized is just magic! It means you can switch through several banks of faders without having them go out of sync with the DAW. With that capability, 8 faders can control a lot of tracks.