Stomp Boxes v Modelling Effects - new delay pedal

[strummer10]

Not sure if this is the correct place to discuss this but here goes: I've found that since I got my first tube amp recently (Hot Rod Deluxe) I feel I should move away from my digital modelling effects and instead to consider single stomp boxes.

I've got a Korg AX3000G that I have had for nearly 10 years. Whilst it's got loads of effects that I like I do notice that the sound I get from the amp without effects (ie straight into amp) is far superior than having the effects plugged in but on bypass mode. I'm guessing that has something to do with it not being true bypass.

I thought I would give a stomp box a try so bought a Boss CE5 chorus pedal off eBay. I'm also waiting on the Boss OS2 (overdrive/distortion). I did find last night that even with the chorus pedal in the effects loop but on bypass the sound of the amp was somehow slightly weaker than on its own. Is this common and something I just need to get used to? On the plus side this did mean I could turn up the master volume slightly and finally get it off 1.5 out of 12! I don't pretend to totally get it but I've seen many people say that you need to have the amp cranked to really get the tubes working - it just doesn't seem possible if I don't want to upset the neighbours.

Also, now that I have made my move into stomp boxes what would people recommend for a delay pedal. I'm torn between a good single delay but analogue, or something more like the Line 6 DL4 or TC Electronic Flashback X4. I do really like the idea of coming up with soundscapes (Nick McCabe/Pink Floyd etc - not that I'm good enough at the moment) so would people suggest the digital delays rather than analogue for the looper functions? I've got about £200 to spend if this helps.

As always, any suggestions/advice is most welcome.

[peterp]

gilmourish goes over a lot of the gear used by David in Pink Floyd on each of their albums http://www.gilmourish.com/

For a Delay I have a TC-Electronics Nova delay, lots of different delays out there to pick from.
I was considering a MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay at the time I bought the Nova delay, might still pick it up someday.
For a looper I am using a Boss RC-20xl,

One thing to be aware of is some effects like the Big Muff (often seen on Mr Gilmour's board) don't work so well at low volumes, they are designed to sound at their best just as the amps are nearing breakup.

[Farrell Jackson]

I know some folks shy away from Behringer gear for various reasons but I use the Echo Machine for my delays and repeats. It is digital but it has many tweakable settings and all for about $50 US. It's well worth the dollars. All I have are tube amps, most are Fenders, and it works well with them. Just an option to look into.

Farrell

[strummer10]

Cheers Peter. I could spend days on that Gilmour site! The more I think about it the more the modelling type delay pedal seems appropriate especially as the two I mentioned would come with a looper built in. I notice that the Boss Digital Delays are quite a bit cheaper. Does anyone have experience of the Boss and the DL4/Flashback?

[chip]

Well I have gone back and forth from box to box to amp to amp and back, but I always come to the same conclusion. As far a valve amps are concerned sticking boxes of any sort in front of them takes away the pure valve sound, it just sounds much more real without effects, just the guitar and a lead..

 This is what I am back to again, I thought I had found the magic with the Yamaha but it's still not for me, it's close, very close but when I go back to the basics it's much better, also there always seems to be a sterile sound bit like the Boss effects on the BR's it's not quite there, then the bypass problems which are it seems always present. I don't really have much experience of using solid state amps, so I don't know about how boxes stack up on those types of units......... but valves, the boxes ain't for me..

[Blooby]

I have posted previously that one of my favorite guitar players is Jack Pearson out of Nashville.  I was stunned by his live sound twice.  Once, he had a Tube Screamer into a Fender Blues Jr. (as in not-too-expensive tube amp). Another time, he had a Tube Screamer into a solid state Yamaha amp, and the tone was heavenly.

As for the volume issue, I'd look into a Hot Plate (a power attenuator) if you are happy with the current tone coming from your amp.

For delays, I have seen many foot racks with the Line 6 on it (has a looper as well).  If you are looking at soundscapes, I can recommend the Digitech Timebender Delay.  Beyond normal digital, analog, and tape delays (with a good Echoplex sound), it has a 20 second looper, rhythmic delay patterns, modulation on the repeats, and even a reverse delay.  It's fun to turn the original signal off and use the reverse delay.  Instant Jimi Hendrix.  The external footswitch allows you to cycle through 4 presets (or 8 with an expression pedal).  You can get pretty freaky with it.

Blooby

[bruno]

I have a Hotrod Delux - its a brill amp. Distortion not too great on it unless you crank it. My favourite pedal with it is the Fulltone Robin Trower pedal. Sounds great! Boss Tremolo pedal sounds very nice as well! TC Nova System is also very nice - with analog distortions. Oh and the Saturator - a bit thin. The Blackstar HX has crazy heavy tones, and the ToneBone Hot British is very nice indeed. 

The best is the Fulltone and the ToneBone!
B.

[IanR]

Hi Strummer,

I have an AC30cc2x amp and yes, you get the great distorted sounds when you crank it up.  This amp however, has a master control.  So you can really wind up the pre-amp stage and then the power amp stage is attenuated by the master control, so you don't annoy the neighbors.  But I often do anyway 



I do have a couple of pedals.  I do quite like the sound that I can can get through the AC30 using the Boss Blues Driver.  And I also have a Zoom multi effects pedal that I use for way-out noises and crazy distortion.  It's also got an octave effect so I can get my guitar to pretend to be a bass.

Both of theses pedals have a volume control so you can balance the processed and unprocessed signals going through the pedal.  I'm surprised that you can't do that with that with the pedal you have as well?

regards,

Ian

[strummer10]

Thanks for the replies. I'm hoping Ian and Bruno can help with the question that's been bothering me for ages but i've been too ashamed to ask about pre-amp and power amp. The hot rod deluxe has a volume for the clean channel and a master volume for when using the drive/gain. When you guys talk about cranking the pre-amp do you mean the clean channel? If I did this then I guess I would get an unbearably loud clean sound, or is the point that eventually the cleanness breaks up? As far as I can tell the master volume only works with the drive channel. My stupid question is: is the drive channel essentially the power amp and the clean channel the pre amp? Perhaps you can assist an idiot!

[chip]

The clean channel on a Fender amp is the cleanest there is, you will be hard pushed to get a Fender to break up. The gain stage will not work on the clean channel,,, right?. I have a Bugera V22 which has the exact same circuit as the Fender clean channel and will not break up even flat out. You could try turning the clean volume up full and using the master volume as your level. This would work on single channel amps but maybe not two channel amps

I think you have to remember this is a Fender not a Marshall, it is built for clean. Also the guitar you are using will play a part, put a Gibson junior through it and it may break up a little, so there are lot's of variables at play here.