Bringing up your vocals in a mix (short tutorial)

[AndyR]

I think read the article first - it's probably clearer!!

Most of the stuff in my post is how I've used it since...

But yes, give it a go - it's astounding the affect it has, without messing with the original sounds too much.

[Geir]

Andy's advice is good advice ! I usually forget to apply them, but when I do it solves the mixing problem at once ! I've also used a variation of it. After numerous of Beatles covers, I've often adapted the Lennon approach to the main vocals: DOUBLE IT that is: record the main vocals twice, getting them as similar as possible. On a couple of occations (e.g. the last one, where it really solved a problem getting the main vox to fit in the mix) I used the compression/exciter trick on one of the vocal tracks and leaving the other untouched (except for a touch of reverb).

[AndyR]

Funnily enough, I've started experimenting with doubling the lead vocals recently. I've not used it in anger yet (at least I don't think I have... it was an accident if I have!), but I'm beginning to see the use of it.

Something I have used on the current thing I'm working on - a huge rock thing - is the idea of sticking a high harmony, above the lead, closely following it. I got the idea listening to Steven Tyler of Aerosmith - there was a period when he seemed to be doing it to everything.

It hasn't quite worked out like Steven Tyler, and I couldn't track the lead as well as I wanted (and the high part went to a top B!!), but I quite like the effect it has. I've not mixed the vocals into the track yet, but it seems to have the effect of making the lead richer and more noticable. And when the high part falls away, the lead on its own becomes a lot more intimate suddenly.

EDIT: Actually, make that a top C!!! It starts on a B, then the next chord is an Ab, and it went up, so it must have been a C - no wonder I was having trouble!!

[Hook]

I think all this is great info! Incredibly thorough na_th_an, I'm actually interested in the de-esser quite a bit but I haven't the foggiest idea about plug-ins and such. I have audacity but I hate doing my mixing on it. I mostly want to record the song , produce it & move on to the next one. I really have never felt I posses the ear to hear the frequencies clearly and try to record the sound I like and do no EQing. That does lead to some compromises on the vocal quality I guess. I have a very dynamic voice and I know my recordings could use some fine tuning but if it's to get done, now at least, it will have to be by someone else. That person has probably read the info provided here , nice link AndyR, I tried to read it but thought my head would explode!
Long story short (HA!) thanks for the info, perhaps one day I'll use it. At least I know where to find it.
Rock On!

[Oldrottenhead]

i'm a bit like hook on this, i tend to do everything on my recorder. the one thing i do always try to do tho, is pan all the instruments (especially guitars) away from the middle to leave space for the vocals in the centre.

my experiences when collaborating is that when there are guitars in the middle of a track ive been asked to sing over, is i find it difficult to find space for a vocal, it can also be difficult to hear yourself properly when recording which can result in peaking. so i might ask that the instrumentation be repanned. that said bass in the middle is never usually a problem as it is a different fequency from my vocal range.

just an afterthough in many collabs i do, i send wav files of the vocal, so the person mixing the song may very well use some of these techniques. me? i'm too lazy , i just want the song done so i can get on to the next one.

[Hook]

the one thing i do always try to do tho, is pan all the instruments (especially guitars) away from the middle to leave space for the vocals in the centre.

I always pull the lead vocal slightly (5 -10 maybe) to the left. The only thing I leave centered are the drums, I do pan auxiliary percussion around but whatever track drives the beat I center. In my opinion panning is the easiest thing one can do to give clarity to the parts thus giving unity to the song. Not the best thing (see above) but certainly the simplest.
Rock On!

[AndyR]

Yep, I've applied "exciting compression" to you before now, Jim (It was the only way to get you nicely through the dense wall of guitars on Muletide so that it could become Outside!)

And actually, you've got a good point about panning the guitars and stuff away from centre. I don't allow ANYTHING in the centre (apart from bass) when the lead vocal is making a noise (I haven't much control over the panning of the drums on the BR1600 but, apart from the fact they've mixed it for a left-hand drummer, it seems ok, kick and snare in the middle, everything else vaguely where you'd expect it).

Unless I'm out to create an effect, I regard centre stereo as belonging to the singer, the kick, the bass, and the snare. Everyone else has to fit round where they can.

I was actually quite surprised you managed to find any room on Muletide to stick a vocal - I can't remember how it was done exactly, but certainly the lead would have been the "vocal", so smack down the middle, I guess. I was dreading having to remix the original instrumental (might have been impossible, actually) to fit you in as your vocal arrived, but the moment I dialled up two orh tracks beside the stereo mix, one orh with reverb, the other with heavy compression and drastic top-end boost... there you was


And Hooky, you just reminded me, saying about de-essers. I had huge problems over Ss originally. I even learnt how to side-chain on an outboard compressor (that's all a de-esser is - set it up to monitor one signal and then duck another one). But it's so fiddly.

And then I learnt that for most us, most of the S comes out of one side of your mouth. Record some "TeSSSt" vocals with the mic at different positions around you - you'll soon find where to place the mic so you don't get any naSSSties ... then you just learn to always address the mic like that. I haven't thought about de-essing for a couple of years now...

[64Guitars]

I'm actually interested in the de-esser quite a bit but I haven't the foggiest idea about plug-ins and such.

You don't need a plug-in. Your BR-900 has a de-esser built-in. Just select any patch in the MIC bank that uses the VOCAL MULTI or COSM COMP VCL algorithm then press ENTER to edit the patch. Cursor to [des] or [DES] (uppercase means it's on; lowercase means it's off) and press ENTER to adjust its parameters (there are only two - Sibilant and Level, plus an On/Off switch). See page 95 of the BR-900 manual (revision 6).

And Hooky, you just reminded me, saying about de-essers. I had huge problems over Ss originally. I even learnt how to side-chain on an outboard compressor (that's all a de-esser is - set it up to monitor one signal and then duck another one). But it's so fiddly.

The BR-1600 has a built-in de-esser too. See page 96 of the BR-1600 manual (revision 10 or 'A').

[launched]

And there's the Spitfish VST for those that don't have this feature built into their recorders. It's been mentioned earlier in this thread, but I wanted to stress that digitalfishphones has the best "knob" based compression VST's that I've used so far. Just turn the knobs and hear the results. Each one has an advanced mode as well if you want to dig deeper. It will definitely keep you from using too much of the effect.

Ok, now my question. Does anyone know how to keep doubled vocals from sounding "phasey" - Obviously each track will not be identicle to each other, that's why you do it in the first place. But it's tough to get the panning and levels right to remove pitch phasing. I have found that EQ reduction in the under <1K helps a lot. I don't want to throw in the towel, because I like the way it sounds 85% of time. I just want the other 15%

[na_th_an]

As mentioned, I usually leave the centre for the main vocals, the bass drum, the snare, and the bass guitar. Everything else is either side.