Songwriting: Simple versus Complex

[Farrell Jackson]

Have you ever noticed most times, but not always, that simple songs ( 3 chords) with a good melody and words  seem to get better audience reception or plays compared to a more complex song (6 or more chords) that also has a good melody and words? Some of my most successful (a relative term) songs are my least complex, least skillfully performed and produced. This is just a general, not site specific, observation I've made through out the years of my songwriting. For example I have a song that I consider to be real good. It gets very few plays or comments, no matter where it's posted,  and I consider it to be one of my best. I thought it had all the ingredients to be successful but something must be missing, lol. Just my morning rant and again this is not a music site specific question......Have any of you experienced this with your song creations? Any ideas or thoughts as to why?

Farrell

[chip]

Keep it simple..My original band try and overcomplicate stuff, but I try and bring them back to simple 3/4 chord stuff
sometimes I do this through the back door. While they go off on a prog attack I bring in a 1/4/5 over the top and before they know it they are back. Most of the stuff I write follows the stripped back 3/4 chords, they work, always have done always will.

Don't matter which popular chords you use or in which order/key, they belong to no one, as you know the melody is what makes the song with the harmony in support, less is probably best, for me anyway.

[T.C. Elliott]

I haven't noticed it much or at all, but then I also haven't been looking for it. 
I think it depends on how you use it. Most listeners, even musicians, like to be entertained and not have to think about the song. And while more complex chords or chord progressions can work, and in fact offer more opportunity or options for the song, they are more 'work' for the listener sometimes.

Listen to Marshall Crenshaw to get a feel for complex chords or chord progressions that work so well. It's 80's power pop at it's finest, imo. (Although he's still touring and making music.) He makes it sound effortless. I cannot seem to do that as well. But then, who can?

[64Guitars]

A simple song can capture the listener's attention on the first listen. A complex song may take many listens before the listener really gets into it. But what I found when I used to buy a lot of records is that I soon got tired of the simple songs. But I could enjoy the more complex songs for years and not get sick of them. So more complex songs require an investment of time before they can be fully appreciated but they tend to be more enduring than simple songs.

On a forum like this, most of us don't have time to listen to each song repeatedly. If a song is complex, the listener may not get into it on the first listen and, therefore, may not give it a second listen. So, it's understandable that you might not get as many comments as you'd get on a simple song. It's not that the complex song isn't good. It's just that people need to listen to it several times before they'll really appreciate it, and most of us don't have the time.

On the other hand, we can all recognise great songwriting and musical skill in a song, even if we're not really into it at the time. So I'm sure that complex songs will get some positive comments most of the time anyway, although perhaps not as many as the simpler songs.

[hooper]

I do agree with the basic premise that a simpler song and arrangement tends to be immediately more accessible to a broader audience.  I think one of the marks of a 'good' melody is that anyone can walk down the street humming it.  But I also agree that there is a matter that a more sophisticated song brings more to be appreciated by a more sophisticated listener.  So, I guess part of the issue is in understanding: Who is your audience? And what do you expect to get out of the deal between the player and the listener...

I've wondered a lot about what other people hear when they listen to music, or what they see when they look at colors for that matter.  There's no way of knowing for certain whether or not we're experiencing the same thing.  I'm pretty sure that a lot of people (nice people, who will tell you they love music) when they listen to a song really don't hear much detail beyond what words the singer is saying up front-and-center and maybe get some sense of 'the beat'. Kind of like right now I can recall what the Mona Lisa painting looks like.  I can picture the girls face... but couldn't tell you for a million bucks what is in the background or what direction the light is coming from.  But I'd betcha that a serious art student could tell you a whole lot more than that.

So, maybe it has something to do with art appreciation. 




   

[vigwig]

I also agree that simpler, less wordy, clean and clear songs are well received.  Look at pop favorites that are generally 2 minutes long and tell a simple story in that brief listen.  That is not to say long, story songs aren't popular too.  Many songs are snap-shots of timing:  They are the right sound, the right sentiments and the right mood at the right time.  There is a difference between poetry and lyrics.  I think shorter is , for the most part, better.
Vic

[T.C. Elliott]

I'll make a comment on Hooper's comment. You are absolutely right that most untrained ears cannot tell you much about a song and many times can't tell you why they do or do not like a particular song. BUT, that doesn't mean they don't have a discerning ear or good taste. (I know you didn't imply that, but I'm expanding on the theme.) Sometimes it's frustrating for me when someone doesn't like a song and they cannot tell me why. I suspect my shoddy demos account for some of them and the songs themselves sometimes... but how many times does a song not come across as well because it's guitar/vox and doesn't have bass/drums/backing vox to give it a lush setting for the listener to appreciate?  I'm probably the most guilty of writing a song, getting the basic idea down and then moving on. And I don't use many advanced chords (although some, or at least some interesting voicings.)

I guess my point is this. I kind of miss the time when I could listen to a song and either enjoy it or not without analyzing it. And sometimes, very rarely, I'll hear a song and just like it. But most of the time I'm listening to PARTS of the song instead of the song. It's only familiar music that I can just sit back and let it wash over me without picking it apart most of the time.

[Oldrottenhead]

wow this is a deep one, here is my pennysworth. some simple songs are a lot deeper that they might appear on the surface, and some complicated songs are very shallow. and vice versa and all the other combinations.

but at the end of the day it is an individual thing, we all carry our own experiences, baggage etc to a song.

for example people rave about coldplay but having seen the singer and formed a negative opinion of him they could write the greatest song ever and i would still hate it.

in my youth i hated abba classing their songs as commercial pap, now i think knowing me knowing you is one of the finest songs ever written, its helluva catchy  but helluva deep too.

people can talk till they are blue in the face about how great a guitarist mark knopfler is but listening to dire straits is like chalk on a blackboard to my ears it's pristine and clinically cold.

but musical taste is an individual thing, i have the greatest musical taste of anyone on this planet and will not be convinced otherwise.

I am sure that some people hate everything i do because they have already formed an opinion of me, but as long as i like it, it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks.

[64Guitars]

but musical taste is an individual thing

That's a very important point that we should all keep in mind. The popularity of a song isn't a reflection of the songwriter or musician's skill and talent. It's a reflection of the taste of the listeners. So we shouldn't worry about how many comments our songs get. And we certainly shouldn't change our songwriting, playing, or recording techniques to suit the taste of listeners. We should make music for ourselves. If other people happen to like it too, that's great. But if they don't, it only means that they have different taste in music. It should not be interpreted as a weakness of the song.

[Gritter]

but musical taste is an individual thing

That's a very important point that we should all keep in mind. The popularity of a song isn't a reflection of the songwriter or musician's skill and talent. It's a reflection of the taste of the listeners. So we shouldn't worry about how many comments our songs get. And we certainly shouldn't change our songwriting, playing, or recording techniques to suit the taste of listeners. We should make music for ourselves. If other people happen to like it too, that's great. But if they don't, it only means that they have different taste in music. It should not be interpreted as a weakness of the song.

Ditto...unless the song sucks.