Amp suggestions for gigging

[Tony W]

Well fellas, a new world is opening up for me and I need some help. Here's the back drop.... My girlfriend of 10 years just became my ex... So I'm doing the mid-life crisis thing. Sold a bunch of shit, mostly hers, sold some of mine, bought a new truck and joined a band.

I need a bit of help with the joining the band thing. I've known the guys for a decade, though they formed 3 years ago. They have an amazing lead guitarist, and I'm just going to play some rhythm, maybe some keys. Kerry the other guitarist has a 100w Marshall half stack. Last week it was an outdoor gig, and they were pushing 6500w through the PA.

So the question is, what setup should I get?

considerations:

I've only played solid state (mostly modeling amps)
I'm scared (not opposed to) of tube amps because from my limited experience, they require a finesse that I don't possess (yet)
I don't know shit about pedals outside of my Line 6 Pod X3 live
I am partial to Line 6 amps (familiarity) but willing to change
*The set list contains Bush/Metallica/Nickelback/Ugly Kid Joe/Dylan/Foo Fighters/Seether/Zeppelin/Skynyrd/etc

[peterp]

Perfect opportunity to spend some time in the shops trying out gear!
I'd chat with the lead player and band leader if they are not the same person to get their opinion, both on amps and on a base set of pedals/pedal board (if you will be using them)
Maybe even get them to go out with you to test some gear.
Just use their opinion as a starting point to find what you like, as the gear will be yours even if you split.

There is nothing mystical or special about tube amps, they are as old as I am....
Lot of strange voodoo has been dreamed up about them, especially powering up and down, which is all BS
Just keep a spare set of tubes and fuses around.
If you are doing a lot of live gigging many keep a backup amp handy, that goes for any kind of amp they all can give up at the worst possible moment.

I've had more issues with Solid States becoming Silent States than with tubes.

How are they traveling to gigs? If it is in a cargo van you might want to look into a road case for your equipment too.

Any rate seem a great opportunity opening up. Good luck!

[Oldrottenhead]

no idea what suggest tony, but best of luck with the band.

[Farrell Jackson]

A breakup can be a trying thing so good for you Tony on moving forward and planning ahead! Life does go on so you might as well enjoy the ride.

I gigged for many years (35 to be exact) before retiring from it last year. I was in the same position (2nd guitar/lead/rhythm/vocals) as you are stepping into. The band that I played in didn't require the volumes you are talking about so small combo Fender tube amps mic'ed up worked for us. The lead player and I matched out wattage so that the on stage sound was fairly equal but the out front mix was different.

Since your lead guitarist is playing a 100 watt Marshall half stack and from my experience you'll have to match his set up in power and speakers or at least close to it. There's nothing worse than a good lead guitarist wailing away and that's all the crowd can hear...they need to hear the rhythm guitar and those harmony leads to round out the sound and make the band sound fuller.

So I would say get at least a 100 watt twin or a half stack...whether it's solid state or tube. I've always played tube amps on stage but I have a couple of solid state amps that I could get by with in a pinch. Having a back up amp is a good idea....that has saved the show a few times for me.

As to what kind of amp, well that depends on your budget and music style......You can get by with as little as $500 or you can spend thousands. Go try some out at the local music stores but keep the high wattage in mind. An amp might sound loud and proud in the store but that can change out in the open on stage. Get more than you need...head room is a good thing.

Since you are sort of used to the solid state or modeling sound you might check out the Squire Fender Mustang III twin. I think they are 2x12's with 100 or 150 watts...can't recall off the top of my head. I have a friend that gigs with two of the Mustang II amps stacked (40 watts 1x12" each) and they get loud and hold the sound. Don't take this as a stage endorsement because the only experience I've had with the Mustang series amps is the Mustang I (20watts) I use in the studio. I've had it for a year without any problems and it gets a variety of sounds but I don't know if it is road worthy.  

As far as pedals...they are a million to chose from. I prefer individual pedals over the combined effects pedals. I've tried the combined pedals but the draw back I found was not being able to switch between effects immediately. Most have you scrolling to the next effect. If you go the individual pedal route make sure you get a pedal board set up with a power supply so when you get to the gig you can just open it up and plug in. That way you're ready to go and don't have to worry about connecting the pedals or worry that a battery will fail. Also if you tire of an effect or one fails it's easy to change it out.

Just some quick thoughts but I could go on and on on this subject, lol!

I hope this helps some.

Farrell

[Ferryman]

For live work tube is always best IMO. Solid state is great for recording and the studio, but when playing live you need to "feel" the sound and you need to be able to change the sound just by how hard you hit the strings for example. There is nothing complex about tube amps, the key thing is that you have a gain and a master volume, the gain will control how much dirt you get. The beauty of tune amps is the warmth and feel they give - you can set the gain so you have a cleanish sound when you play gently but when you whack the strings you get more dirt.

Keep the pedal set up simple to start with. For most of what you want, you can get the sound from the amp. A tube amp will be great for Foos, Zepp etc. For heavier stuff like Metallica you will need a distortion pedal, or an amp with multiple channels so you can switch between clean, crunch and heavy distortion settings with a footswitch. Some of the simpler ones won't support that.

For me, Marshall rules but I used to use a 1970s JMP master volume amp, one of the all time classics, so I am biased.

Have fun!

Cheers,

Nigel

[AndyR]

Bad news on the missus

But good luck on the band thing

Ampwise, my preference would be valve - and so will yours be once you've used it at any volume.

If you go valve, you won't necessarilly need to get 100W to match his 100W. The difference in volume between 50 and 100 is not great (and the number of and choice of speakers will affect it). Also, unless you're playing enormo-domes or outdoors a lot (or unless he's a complete nutter ) I seriously doubt that he's using all his 100W (especially if the PA was only 6.5K)

I used to use a 50W master volume 1X12 combo (the amp inside is a "clone" of the 70's Marshall m/v amp). In all the time I gigged, and I could be pretty loud, I never got it much above 4 or 5 on the master (and that was outdoors gigs!). I also used it in set-ups where the other guys were using Marshall 100 stacks, and I was the one that used to get asked to turn down on stage by the sound engineer! (That was a 20K PA, all instruments mic'd - and my puny 50w not even a third of a way up was deemed "too loud" )

Most gigs I did (clubs and pubs), my 50W was down to 3 on the master - and that was NOT where the good sound was, valve amps like to be cranked a bit. My current home valve amp is a 15W m/v 1X12 combo. I've had it up to the volume I used to use live - that seems to be about 7-8 on the master (and that IS where the good sound is!). The amp I have now would have been far better than the one I used to drag round hundreds of gigs.

Nobody really needs that much power unless you're trying to fill a huge space with just the backline. A lot of guys I know will seriously disagree with that (and your lead guitarist might be one, in which case you'll probably have to go his route). But I'm convinced that the main thing is in what it feels like to play. The guys with the big stacks insist on taking them into tiny venues because "it don't sound right, I can't project without my 4X12". A 20-30 watt through a single 12" speaker does project, and it doesn't sound much different at all out in the venue - ask the audience...

Unless your band is b@stard loud, so you have to keep up to join in, you're in the perfect position to learn that a smaller (and less back-breaking) solution is actually fine. If you get used to playing through stacks, that's what you'll need from then on.


You do have another option... If you've mastered your X3 and have some amp patches you like, then you could use that. You can feed it straight to the PA, but you'd need some way of monitoring it. Instead of messing around like that, I'd lean towards getting myself a powerful keyboard amp (you want clean, almost hi-fi, to get the best out of a modellor on stage), and then get the band/sound-guys to treat whats coming out of your keyboard amp's speakers just the same as whats coming out of his 4X12.

However(!) Although using the X3 like that would definitely work, using a nice ordinary valve amp would be a lot easier and less hassle (and, btw, the other guys in the band will think you're more of a "man" if you're using a "proper" amp!! )


I'd go with what others have said - first stop is get the other guitarist to help you out. Then just have fun trying/buying some gear and learning to cope with the sheer volume your geetar can suddenly generate (and I'm thinking of my 15 watter at home, let alone what you might end up with! )

[Flash Harry]

Andy makes a really good point.

If your backline is too loud it makes the mix out in the auditorium hard to control. You need enough to be heard on stage - use stage monitoring - and have the backline at a reasonable volume. You only compete with the drums when the sound gets front of house.

Our guitarist uses a Blackstar 25W/100W  switchable. This means you get the nice dirty sounds at relatively low volumes at the lower power setting. Mic your cab up, Shure SM57 is ideal and experiment with where you place the mic. Put the mic through the desk and out through the PA and have enough coming back through your monitors to be able to hear what you need to.

It's a black art. You should take to it like a fish to water....

[The Gobi Desert Canoe Club]

Hi, lots of wise words out there, having gigged on and off for the best part of 40 years I've played through a whole bunch of amps but have two favourites. The Marshall 100w + 4x12 and the Fender Twin Reverb both of which were loud enough for most venues in the UK especially when put through the pa. Never be under powered, it is just so frustrating. I never used pedals much only an expression pedal and an octivider much preferring the natural sound of the guitar to do the job for me oh yes and I went through a period of using a chorus but not that much. Enjoy shopping...............Willie

[Blooby]

If you are playing predominantly rhythm, I would caution you not to muddy up a band dynamic with high-gain stuff (depending on the music you are playing).  You shouldn't be competing for sonic real estate. 

There really is no right or wrong.  I wish I had my old Yamaha solid state amp because I know I could throw a couple pedals in front of it and get a killer sound.  Having said that, there really is nothing like standing in front of a juiced tube amp, and I'm not talking about volume.

I've noticed music stores carrying more and more entry items with not a lot of variety in the shops.  You may just want to spend a couple afternoons on Youtube or figure out what's behind some great tones.

My next amp will be a Fender Twin, but it's only because that's where my head is at right now.  I'd love to have a Two Rock Dumble clone, but I don't have $5,000+ to spend.

Good luck.

Blooby

[thetworegs]

I'm like Jim I don't know much about amps but the chaps above seems to know there stuff....just wanted to wish you luck on the band ..............be careful with all those groupies now your a single man playing guitar in a rock'n'roll band......break a leg.....enjoy it