Songcrafters.org

tom r suggested this idea in another topic and I thought we could discuss it here.

Quote from: tom r on August 29, 2010, 06:01:57 AMMaybe the forum should work on a rock opera???

That's a great idea! Someone would have to create an original storyline first and an outline of what each song is about within the context of the storyline. If anyone wants to do that, maybe they could post it here and other members can say which songs they want to do so that everyone's working on a different song. The finished songs could be posted in the Original Songs board. However, it might be best to hold off on posting the songs until the whole opera is finished. Then we can listen to it in its entirety so we can follow the story.

This is a pretty ambitious project and should take quite some time to complete, so I don't think we need to schedule it as a normal festival. The festivals can carry on as usual and this would be a secondary project.

Anyone interested?

Count me in, always wanted a night at the opera ;D !!!

A deaf, dumb, and blind goat whose cheese is heralded throughout the land. The details are still being worked out.

Just a quick thought.

Oh, please no more deaf dumb and blind Tommy's LOL   Well i guess if it's a goat, then it's a deaf, dumb, and blind Billy :~)

Actually this sounds pretty cool to me, we have an abundance of awesome writers on Songcrafters, that could write an excellent story with, say about a dozen songs or so?

I originally wanted to do a Time Traveler rock opera myself, about a brilliant guy that unknowingly gets micro-chipped by the gov't, invents a time machine; gets into big trouble due to government involvement & control, and then slowly looses his mind.... :~)   .... alot of loose ends, and double meanings. 

But i've since got too involved in music making and haven't taken the time to invest in the story line lately...

I would be very interested in contributing.  I had a song cycle idea a little while back about a guy who falls asleep on the beach and when he wakes up in the morning he discovers (to his amusement and horror) that he has become a lobster-man, Sorta "Happy Jack" meets "Tales From The Underground" meets "Naked Lunch".  I didn't get too far into it, just a fragment of one song, a rather central song to the whole cycle, but alas only a fragment.  Here is all I have so far (you guys would tell me if it is shite or not, right):  I am sure that Mark (Launched)  and Cuthbert can relate to this high-brow concept of mine, being lobster loving east coasters themselves.

There was a man from the beach,
his face was as red as a beet,
all the children would run away,
every-time it was a sunny day,
because his hands were even redder than his feet.

They threw him in an old pot,
put it on the fire until it was hot,
all the children came gathering around,
because they could hear that sound,
of the lobster man as he fought.

Count me in, and if I can perhaps work some of my "Lobtser-man" project into it all the better (or not, if it doesn't fit with the chosen theme).  

I would be up for writing an outline.

It's what I was born to do.

There would be a somewhat loose, surreal element in order to give each contributer some artistic leeway.

What a fantastic idea.

this could be unbelievable aweful or it could be unbelievably good.

a dyslexic typist falls fowl of a mad cornish taxi driver, who locks her in his taxi playing songs on his 8 track whilst trying on her knickers.
buck buck buck.

Quotethis could be unbelievable aweful or it could be unbelievably good.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

That reminds me of these famous last words...

"Hey, hold my beer, I'm gonna try somethin'...'"

Quote from: Blooby on August 29, 2010, 12:58:38 PMA deaf, dumb, and blind goat whose cheese is heralded throughout the land. The details are still being worked out.

Just a quick thought.

I'm deaf in one ear with a fairly low IQ, and I'm squinting a lot to read the comments.

I just cut the cheese.

I don`t know about this! Whenever i hear Rock Opera i think of leotards.

Lobster man sounds Intriguing though.



Here`s the Cast!!

(http://laknockers.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/la-knockers-80-4s.jpg)

Here`s Lobster Man!!

(http://29.media.tumblr.com/NBzIYzYjuk3ovk7fLlj5XpBxo1_400.jpg)

That's efin funny Gnasty!!   I want that cast on my rock opera :~)

I have this idea involving a hideously deformed rooster - the working title is "Bantam of the Opera"...

Gee that was bad - love the opera concept though, I'm up for it, if anyone can stand my gags

Whatever framework we decide on, I think it would be good if the underlying story in some way could reflect the life on this site!

Quote from: Geir on August 30, 2010, 07:16:56 AMWhatever framework we decide on, I think it would be good if the underlying story in some way could reflect the life on this site!

How about:  man seeks to stave off mid-life crisis by escaping into alternative online rock universe, to the point where he has difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality.... er, hang on, that's sounding like a documentary...

This has certainly taken off!  There are some warped minds me thinks :-)
So a man falls asleep on a beach. We need a back story for him? Maybe he's a high flying music exec who's become dissatisfied?
Decides he's had enough

Tom

Quote from: tom r on August 30, 2010, 09:52:08 AMThis has certainly taken off!  There are some warped minds me thinks :-)
So a man falls asleep on a beach. We need a back story for him? Maybe he's a high flying music exec who's become dissatisfied?
Decides he's had enough

Tom

Reggie Perrin, the opera!

Ok... a record exec is having a midlife crisis and his business is hurting because of new media, he falls asleep at the beach and goes into a dream sequence transporting him back to the inception of recording technology, where he witnesses the recording of some old opera (Enrico Caruso) and becomes inspired again, wakes up and saves rock 'n roll by creating his own independent band of musicians from around the world.

I dug into the archives (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=723.msg4549#msg4549) (a post from 8/31/08) to seek out an over-the-top beginning.

Original post: This needs some history.  A keyboardist friend and I constantly joke about creating a progressive rock epic.  We debate about all the elements it needs (atmospheric beginning, acoustic interlude, mellotron choirs, funky time signatures, several sections delineated with roman numerals, etc.) but we never have actually written anything for it.  I was playing with Sony Acid the other day and combined about eight sound files into this...the atmospheric beginning to the prog epic "The Vast Pretense." 

Won't hurt my feelings if it doesn't get used.  I just figure if you're going to do a rock opera, you might as well go prog.

Blooby

I can't listen to sound tracks on  my work computer Blooby so will def give this a listen when i get home. Writing as a large group will be very difficult as alraedy suggested by 64. I attend work meetings on a regular basis where nobody is willing to make a decision.

I wondered about this as an idea (which will probably go a bit weird) someone starts the story any which way they want and writes a song. Then someone else chooses to take up the story and write the next tune and so on etc.

Just a thought?

Tom

Quote from: tom r on August 31, 2010, 03:25:56 AMsomeone starts the story any which way they want and writes a song. Then someone else chooses to take up the story and write the next tune and so on etc.

That would produce some interesting results.
What would we do, have a signup sheet and then randomize the sequence of participants?

As Blooby said above regarding his suggestion, my feelings won't be hurt if nobody bites at this.  But here is my attempt at a first contribution.

Each song embodies a theme, producing a sequence of themes, that ultimately tells a story.  


 - Feeling beat by the competitive world

 - Romantic relationship deteriorated

 - Get away to a tropical island

 - Flashback of childhood innocence and marvel at the world

 - Dream sequence Part 1:  Psychedelic representation of life

 - Dream sequence Part 2:  Reminded of the meaning of music

 - Determined to follow vision and let all else follow


Each song is self-contained.

I did not number them because more can be added.

Each writer has carte-blanche with their theme.  They can make it as vague or as specific as they want.  As long as the backbone above is followed, it will gel.  

You know what, whatever happened to happy endings?

Why don't we add at the end:

 - Gets the girl back


The idea is that if you follow your vision, life will turn out well.  

Remember, idealism?

(Ok, I'm shutting up now.  Thanks for reading!)

I think this is a great idea, and I like the outline you've created, FuzzFace.

I'd like to add that I think it might work better to post songs as a work in progress, rather than have people working in a vacuum and then posting when its finished. I think the stylistic continuity will flow better if there is a common thread, even a musical theme. Overtures are nice. :)

So...how do we parcel bits out? There's a couple bits in the outline I'd be interested in working on in my ample spare time. ;)

Quote from: FuzzFace on August 31, 2010, 07:28:42 AMYou know what, whatever happened to happy endings?

Why don't we add at the end:

 - Gets the girl back

I thought you said happy endings?

The only true happy ending is upgrading to a new woman, much younger, much hotter, and much less affected by gravity and the pitfalls of life.

Quote from: FuzzFace on August 31, 2010, 07:10:01 AMEach song embodies a theme, producing a sequence of themes, that ultimately tells a story. 


 - Feeling beat by the competitive world

 - Romantic relationship deteriorated

 - Get away to a tropical island

        - brief relationship with one of the island girls, a "She Devil"

- Flashback of childhood innocence and marvel at the world

 - Dream sequence Part 1:  Psychedelic representation of life

 - Dream sequence Part 2:  Reminded of the meaning of music

 - Determined to follow vision and let all else follow

the mid life crisis certainly rings true for me, mrs orh surprisingly has no objections to my upcoming norwegian trip with some friends from here.

i have since found out through one of my fellow travellers who had a chat with her on the phone that she thinks it will get me through my mid-life crisis. i might be the big 50 but i'm still a teenager in my old rotten head.

Quote from: Tony W on August 31, 2010, 10:19:20 AM

Quote from: FuzzFace on August 31, 2010, 07:28:42 AMYou know what, whatever happened to happy endings?

Why don't we add at the end:

 - Gets the girl back

I thought you said happy endings?

The only true happy ending is upgrading to a new woman, much younger, much hotter, and much less affected by gravity and the pitfalls of life.

We could just make the last theme "Discovering the meaning of love", whether it's romantic (old girl, new girl, whatever) or about attaining some kind of enlightenment, or being ready to let people in, or whatever... I want to open it up rather than narrow it down.

Personally I like the idea of him returning to his first love with his youthful outlook renewed, but it's best to leave it open for other writers.

Quote from: Satchwood on August 31, 2010, 10:35:56 AM

Quote from: FuzzFace on August 31, 2010, 07:10:01 AM- brief relationship with one of the island girls, a "She Devil"

That works!

Quote from: cuthbert on August 31, 2010, 09:54:15 AMI'd like to add that I think it might work better to post songs as a work in progress,

That is a good idea.
In fact it would be a good idea to let people post the lyrics if they want input or are concerned about continuity issues in what they are writing.

I would not suggest it be mandatory, but obviously communication is good!

Hiya guys,
Not been on here for a while----ummm----hold on----a bloody long time actually!!! Been lurking though. In fact not been on anywhere,or playing,or anything, for some time. Some of you know I had that little stroke type thingy end of last year, and had 2 major-ish ops to clean out my Carotid arteries, plus other general crap going on, but things are starting to get a bit better now, so hopefully should be around a bit more.

Anyway-----hope you don't mind if I stick my 2 penn'th ( or 2 cents? :D) worth in?
This sounds like a great project, how's about making it maybe a bit more relevant to here? Such as, a frustrated fledgling rock star get's discovered through a music forum, makes the big time, all the 'sex, drugs, rock and roll' scene and stuff, fame and all that goes with it, then after cracking up big time (rehab/nearly dying/etc etc etc) realises that it's not worth it and it's only the music that means anything at all??

Maybe a bit passe, or just  a crap idea??
Cheers.

Oh yeh, I've caught some of the Beatles fest tracks----brilliant job!! 8) I'm going to wait 'till it's finished then download the lot, that way I don't miss any.

Here is my "goofing off at work" idea that came into my head this afternoon. 

A man living his life, mundane existance, loving wife kids , etc, maybe a boring or stressful job.  He keeps hearing snatches of some song in his head.  At first just ignore, but once in a while he stops and pays attention.  Every time he pays attention a little bit intently, the surroundings go slightly blurry, one time the surroundings dissolve in front of his eyes and he can see a glimpse of another place entirely, where everything is diffeent.  Everytime he has one of these experiences he comes back with a strong sense that this life is fake somehow, that that other place he briefly sees whenever the song is in his head is more real, and maybe his real life.  Finally he decides to pay full attention to this song, and poof, he switches over fully to this other world, his old life disolving away into nothing.  He finds himself on a stage, guitar in hand, singing a song in front of 1000's of screaming fans, he is the lead singer/songwriter/guitarists in this band.  He was singing his latest song.  After the song is over one of his bandmates remarks that he never sang that one with so much power before, that he appeared to be in a kind of trance.  Now the question is was he the singer or the song?  Which one is the real life?  It could be filled out with different songs to portray this awakening (or desent into delusion, leave it open ended). Hahahahahaha, needs a bit of work but it sure beats Lobster-man.  At the end is the guy really a singer/songwriter in a band who dreampt of this other life or in a delusion due to some trauma in his original life.  What is real?  The band hits the "perfect note" and the real world is revealed and the false falls away. Or does it? Hahahahahahahaha. Boom.....

I'm in!

Can we not use existing songs from members, and tack together a story line....?








Needs Boobs Though....


(http://www.accesstickets.com/images/katherine-jenkins-687549656.jpg)

A rock opera about boobs...

Once again, T, you are a visionary.

Blooby

Quote from: Bluesberry on August 31, 2010, 01:02:53 PMHahahahahaha, needs a bit of work but it sure beats Lobster-man.  

I kind of liked Lobster Man, Dave!  ;D

I haven't read through all of these posts, but I heard tell of this great idea so I'll try to dig back later.

Many of you know Tharek, Geir, Dave, Tony W and myself undertook a mini musical project called "Shadows" last year. It took a lot of work and communication with lots and lots of tracks, but that was an extremely fun project to do.

A site-wide project would be quite interesting, and I'd love to at least get minimally involved. So that being said, here is what I think would be needed to get the ball rolling fast with positive results. Please forgive me in advance if I've re-chewed any previously served cabbage:

1. Postpone any SongFests. This would be the fest.
2. Short, quick brainstorm for subject matter. But to make things expedient and simple the mods and admins should just call it. Whatever it takes to convert this from dream to reality in short order, and I think this would be a great thing for Songcrafters to do. There has already been talk about doing another one, so we may as well pool resources and support the site.
3. Determine the number of parts or song parts. From personal experience I can tell you that three is plenty, but a minimal amount would be best so we could get through this thing in good shape for the first run. Maybe five?
4. One of the moderators or administrators needs to be in charge of collecting and labeling the music files, and god help the guy who is selected to be Eddie Kramer!
5. I like Tharek's idea of possibly using existing material, but obviously the original track files need to be available, and lyrical content should be modified to fit the theme.

So all in all I think this should be doable and lots of fun. Let's do it!

Mark

Wow and so now i`ve read through almost everything.

This does sound very cool but i really think that there has to be a leader. Someone must take the helm. Lots of ideas but your all not listening to one idea that will lead into the project.

Its getting too complicated. Someone must take the reigns ???

I`ll be part of it if it comes together to let you all know ;D

I'm just dying to see who gets to do the female parts...

I'm with Gnasty about needing a leader - I'm thinking a project full of DIY musos will noodle about forever unless a dictator seizes control.

Hi
yes we require a leader otherwise no decisions will be made. I think Thareks idea of using existing songs would help inspire the story and move things along BUT it would be fun to put in some new material. I'm glad Lobster man was mentioned again i thought he might get lost in the discussion.
Could Lobster man be an agent / band manager grabbing all the cash with his big lobster claw (theres a song in there?)

Tom

This is a very big project to take on. Personally, I think that the concept of doing it is good, but the practicalities of harnessing all the personnel, organisation and egos involved will be very difficult. You will definitely need a leader - and agree to obey them!

As for me, I'll just watch from the sidelines, lol. I know that I'd become too obsessed with the whole thing, and I don't need that type of stress right now. Also, I couldn't cope with not doing all the story, music and design myself, lol (CONTROL FREAK!).

I wrote and recorded a rock opera (on cassette!) back in the mid-90's as I'm hugely influenced by 'Tommy'. It wasn't a very satisfying task in the end, but I did learn one important thing: Keep the story simple. If you look at Tommy, it's a pretty simple story. Keeping it simple means less lyrical pain.

Good luck guys!

This has been a great thread and I've enjoyed it. I won't add any more ideas to the already confused melting pot. I agree that if we do it this would replace all fests until it's done. I'll try to help out wherever possible in whatever way needed, time permitting.

I may be in a minority of one but I always hated "Tommy" with a vengeance for some reason. Preferred "Ogden's Nut Gone Flake" and the like....

Any of you old folks remember this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENblHOxi1c4

Cheers,

Nigel

I love that Keith West song! It's almost too poignant though - always makes me a little sad for some reason.

Even better than Tommy (in my opinion) is a strange little concept album by a band called Nirvana (no not THAT Nirvana). This one came from the late sixties and were pretty psychedelic. Their album 'The Story of Simon Simopath' was a mini, 25 minute rock opera telling the story of a boy who wanted to become a space pilot. This is the best song on there. Not to everyone's taste, but it a special favourite album of mine...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_qjUoFR_tA

I f*cking love the cover too....

(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album/190/190127_1_f.jpg)

For a while I've been interested in the idea of trying to do made to order songs - I've always admired those tunesmiths who could just write great songs, often for other people, across a range of styles - so I'm interested to the idea of being asked to write say a 3 minute piece about a career man falling to pieces, or even turning into a lobster.

But at this point I feel like a bit of an imposter - with my glacial work rate I'd probably be turfed off the project in no time by Das Rockenfuhrer - I've been working on the same song for about 3 months now and have f*** all to show for it...

Quote from: Kevin Mammoth on September 01, 2010, 04:54:43 AMBut at this point I feel like a bit of an imposter - with my glacial work rate I'd probably be turfed off the project in no time by Das Rockenfuhrer - I've been working on the same song for about 3 months now and have f*** all to show for it...

Don't feel bad about that Kevin, I am slow too, I have been working on my latest song for over a month and like you, nothing to show anybody yet.  Lots of us folks work slow on our own stuff.  But sometimes it is refreshing to get a set of limitations and just crank one out, not to the usual nit-picky way, but just get-er-done.  I am always pleasantly surprised in my results under this kind thing.  Your music is damn fine, so take whatever time you need to get your songs done.

Quote from: Kevin Mammoth on September 01, 2010, 04:54:43 AMBut at this point I feel like a bit of an imposter - with my glacial work rate I'd probably be turfed off the project in no time by Das Rockenfuhrer - I've been working on the same song for about 3 months now and have f*** all to show for it...

Sounds like a fast work rate to me! I too am glacial, don't worry about it. But it can be fun to do something quick and different occasionally, and this might be it.....

Cheers,

Nigel

Quote from: Gnasty on August 31, 2010, 10:09:44 PMThis does sound very cool but i really think that there has to be a leader. Someone must take the helm.

Ok, I'll go out on a limb here.

I would volunteer for this but I have a really loose vision.
My idea is to throw it all out there to you geniuses and see what comes back.

So you if want an overall arc that is tight and refined, I'm not the man.

But if you want something that is absolutely open to creativity, I am the man.

My principles are:

1. Keep the story simple (aka what Greeny said)

2. Once each person has their assignment, they have total decision power for that song. Collaborating with others on the writing is voluntary... encouraged but not required.  (Keep in mind, the more specific you make it, the more chance of inconsistencies... singing/writing about feelings is safe because our character's emotions will be all over the place, whereas a lot of plot details weigh down the music... but if you can pull it off then all the power to you!)

3. The more sonically diverse, the better (but we are making a ROCK album)


* * *

(P.S. I doubt it's a problem with this group, but egos are checked at the door.  You have ownership of your portion but overall it's a collaborative effort.  The end result may be surprising, so let's be open to it!)

Here is my revised outline with feedback from cuthbert, Satchwood and Tony W:

 - OVERTURE

- Feeling beat by the competitive world

 - Romantic relationship deteriorated

 - Get away to a tropical island
         (e.g. loving nature and/or total escapism (i.e. "f*ck it all") and/or other)

 - Living a hedonistic philosophy
        (e.g. Satchwood's "brief relationship with one of the island girls")

 - Flashback of childhood innocence and marvel at the world

 - Dream sequence Part 1:  Psychedelic representation of life

 - Dream sequence Part 2:  Reminded of the meaning of music

 - Determined to follow vision and let all else follow

- Has begun to taste the meaning of love


* * *

Who wants to make this album?

Quote from: FuzzFace on September 01, 2010, 08:34:45 AMWho wants to make this album?

           Count me in. On two conditions....

       1. We have a musical director, or to use the phrase 'a leader'. I don't mind who it is, as long as it's not me...

       2. The director informs the participants what will be required of them.

          Solo or Collab, I'll happily carry out what the director wants.

                                 henwrench

I am more of a writer than a conductor.

If anyone wants to nominate a musical director, that would help.

Although if I was musical director, people would pick themes like a signup sheet.

What would be expected, is...
 - After an arbitrary deadline (e.g. 2 months), deliver a song around 4 or 5 minutes long
 - It could be acoustic or electric, fast or slow song, angst-ridden or heartfelt...
 - Weekly posts of lyrics or tracks would be desirable, so that writers can feed off each other.

The fact that each song will have a different singer means by definition, it's going to be eclectic.
Eclectic is good!

(P.S. I'll be happy to do this, and I'd be happy if someone takes care of it.  I just want to see the talent shine).

Quote from: henwrench on September 01, 2010, 09:00:30 AM

Quote from: FuzzFace on September 01, 2010, 08:34:45 AMWho wants to make this album?

           Count me in. On two conditions....

       1. We have a musical director, or to use the phrase 'a leader'. I don't mind who it is, as long as it's not me...

       2. The director informs the participants what will be required of them.

          Solo or Collab, I'll happily carry out what the director wants.

                                 henwrench

Yes, my thoughts as well.

I'm away for a week from the 3rd Septemnber and wont have Internet access but after that i'm well up for writing something either on my own or with someone else. My new BR600 will be plugged in n ready to roll :-)
by the way all this Keith West n Nirvana is taking me back to my psychedelic roots, great stuff. There was a series of albums called Rubble by BaM Caruso Records which are superb if your into english psych / pop / rock / punk

Tom

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1344/harrynilssonthepoint.jpg)

    I'm sure some of you freaks'll have heard this masterpiece. It's one of my favourite albums of all time. 'They fuck you up, your mom and dad...'

                                                 henwrench

I love Keith West's 'Excerpt from a Teenage Opera'. I love the original Nirvana. I love the Bam-Caruso English-psych series. And I really love Harry Nilsson.

I love this place. :)

And I'm really looking forward to where this all goes - don't want to lead it, either - but would love to contribute.

This is a great idea...lots of great ideas...a lot to read...getting caught up...I'm in for sure.

For those of you who are interested in participating, what kind of parameters would you expect to be given?

I think something like a sign-up sheet, with the outline used to separate each section of the opera might work. Of course, more than one person could sign up for a song from each section.  As we add songs, it might affect someone else's song along the way - in keeping with the themes expressed in the outline and as it develops...or not.  :D

The hardest part I think may be keeping the stylistic strands together so that it remains fairly consistent and coherent.

 

Quote from: FuzzFace on September 01, 2010, 11:59:27 AMFor those of you who are interested in participating, what kind of parameters would you expect to be given?

    Loose theme/idea for song, lyrical content that needs to be included, that sort of stuff...

                                                              henwrench

Quote from: cuthbert on September 01, 2010, 12:11:38 PMThe hardest part I think may be keeping the stylistic strands together so that it remains fairly consistent and coherent.

  Personally Cuth, I don't think different styles should bugger things up too much. What is important is the story line is conveyed coherently through the lyrics. Maybe?

                                                     henwrench

Quote from: cuthbert on September 01, 2010, 12:11:38 PMOf course, more than one person could sign up for a song from each section.  

If that happens, they can either collaborate, or we can break up the theme into sub-themes, incorporating both ideas.

If they don't both fit, the Musical Director / Editor says "This doesn't fit".  (I don't forsee anyone wanting to inexplicably add Gladiators or Bank Robbers out of nowhere, but if they do, that deserves it's own opera).

Quote from: cuthbert on September 01, 2010, 12:11:38 PMAs we add songs, it might affect someone else's song along the way - in keeping with the themes expressed in the outline and as it develops...or not.  :D

The first step will be to refine the outline before writing begins.

The Editor's job is to ensure new ideas fit with the overall arc.

Quote from: cuthbert on September 01, 2010, 12:11:38 PMThe hardest part I think may be keeping the stylistic strands together so that it remains fairly consistent and coherent.

If we wanted the musical styles to be consistent, this is not the medium we would use.

This is a celebration of variety.

Quote from: henwrench on September 01, 2010, 12:16:46 PMPersonally Cuth, I don't think different styles should bugger things up too much. What is important is the story line is conveyed coherently through the lyrics. Maybe?

                                                    henwrench

I absolutely agree henwrench, the storyline should be coherent from the lyrics.

Let me try to re-express what I meant, then: I think there should also be some level of common musical style thread as well - it doesn't need to exist in every song (especially if the subject matter calls for a different style), and it certainly doesn't need to be rigidly conformed to - but I think it might work better with some musical continuity or touchstones. So the listener thinks, yes - these songs are part of this greater work.

That's what I was thinking...

Quote from: cuthbert on September 01, 2010, 12:33:40 PMbut I think it might work better with some musical continuity or touchstones. So the listener thinks, yes - these songs are part of this greater work.

    OK. Yep. Gotcha. If you're familiar with 'The Point', there is a very strong two chord 'theme' that runs through the entire album, more so in the narration parts......hmmmmm theres an idea, a narrator. I vote 64Guitars does that part, for suggesting this madness in the first place. Or Launched. I love his voice.

                                        henwrench

Quote from: henwrench on September 01, 2010, 12:39:55 PMOK. Yep. Gotcha. If you're familiar with 'The Point', there is a very strong two chord 'theme' that runs through the entire album, more so in the narration parts......hmmmmm theres an idea, a narrator. I vote 64Guitars does that part, for suggesting this madness in the first place. Or Launched. I love his voice.

That's pretty much it - and I loved 'The Point'...everybody's got 'em! ;)

Quote from: FuzzFace on September 01, 2010, 12:26:37 PMIf we wanted the musical styles to be consistent, this is not the medium we would use.

This is a celebration of variety.

I agree, FuzzFace - and there will be a variety of singing and playing styles from us, as no two are alike. ;)  I think I kind of stepped in it a bit when I wrote that, and hopefully my last post clarified it a bit. There will be differences in styles...and some similarities might help it feel more of a unified piece.

Here's a crimp on a theme. Why not everyone submit a track & the chosen adjudicator creates a 45 minute concept album from all of the songs he or she has chosen? With an explanation of the storyline. That way, no one has to conceive the album apart from the nominated conceiver.  ;D

Just a suggestion.  Why not have one or two vocalists for the entire project to give it some continuity?

Like I said, just a suggestion.

Bloob

I think we should elaborate on this idea...it's got an international theme and begs to be set to music!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4B_PY2vveQ

Who is volunteering to be the singer? 1st come is the singer & 2nd is the harmonies :-)

Sorry if this is long but in any case this discussion has got my mind running a mile a minute.

How about an art theme?  For example, name each song after a Picasso painting.
Check it out:


:-\  Cup of Coffee  
http://www.nga.gov/fcgi-bin/timage_f?object=66506&image=16657&c=
 - Mundanity and bloodsuckingness of treadmill life    


:'(  The Lovers
http://www.nga.gov/fcgi-bin/timage_f?object=46667&image=10521&c=
 - Disappointment of two lovers once close now drifted apart  


8)  Barcelona Beach  
http://iberianature.com/barcelona/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/picasso_beach-barceloneta-g.jpg
 - Quest to find one's place with nature  
 (If a Spanish guitar gets played, no one will complain... hint hint...)


:o  Desmoiselles d'Avignon
http://blogs.princeton.edu/wri152-3/f05/cargyros/the_brothels.html
 - Indulging in the abundance of carnal pleasures  


;)  Salomé
http://triangleartsandentertainment.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/salome.jpg
 - The temporary intensity of a new relationship followed by the realization that the pursuit of which is a distraction that ultimately leads away from fulfillment
  (Bellydancing rhythms, anyone?  Maybe some tempo changes to transition from partying and introspectiveness?)  


::)  Boy Leading A Horse
http://www.archweb.it/arte/artisti_P/Picasso_G/images/Pablo%20Picasso%20-%20Boy%20Leading%20a%20Horse.JPG
 - Reminiscing and reflecting on the irony of the power of youth  


???  Blind Minotaur (Led By A Girl)
http://nonsensegrandcentral.com/?p=128
 - Frustration of one's power being misdirected  


>:(  Guernica  
http://artcritique.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/guernica.jpg
 - The bloody internal war between what you wish you were, what you think you are, and in fact what you are
  (This calls for some wild rawness or some trippy psychedelia... or why not both?)


:)  The Old Guitarist  
http://www.theartistpablopicasso.com/pablo-picasso-painting-old-guitarist.htm
 - Inspiration comes from an unexpected source    
  (This is about getting back to one's roots... calls for a scaled-down musical style).


:D  Joie de Vivre    
http://www.artgalleryartist.com/pablo-picasso/painting/joie_de_vivre.jpg
 - Resolving to follow one's vision and embrace happiness and love
  (This is a true happy, summery song).


;D  The Dove of Peace    
http://www.biographyonline.net/artists/images/picasso%20peace.gif
 - Tasting the sweetness of inner peace that comes from enlightenment
  (Someone who has an open dialogue with sappiness should do this one).

Quote from: Blooby on September 01, 2010, 02:53:42 PMJust a suggestion.  Why not have one or two vocalists for the entire project to give it some continuity?

Quote from: Black Mary on September 01, 2010, 03:00:05 PMWho is volunteering to be the singer? 1st come is the singer & 2nd is the harmonies :-)

It's a good idea, and having just one or two singers would surely set continuity well.

But I also think that might take some of the fun out of the whole thing. I'd like to hear the people who do the writing also doing the singing, myself. Makes it more a labor of love, rather than sort of a songwriting job.

Just my opinion,
cuth

FuzzFace, you're on fire! :)

Gonna look these over...

Sounds great to me, count me,If  I,m given a subject to write about I,m sure. I would could up with something, only thing is I,m off on my hols, will be back in two weeks.

This sounds like its starting to come together. best to keep the storyline simple as noted earlier. We need a main character (s) who goes on some kind of journey which could be physical but certainly needs to be emotional in some way. There also needs to be an issue which comes to some knid of resolution by the end of the piece.
I like the idea of a narrator.

How about getting a list of contributors together and the story then randomly dish out a sections? makes it a bit more excitig=ng and challenging? We can do our own vocals and if nec we can redo songs with one or two singers later? by the way:
I got my copy of SF Sorrow out last night by the Pretty Things. I'd forgot how good it was. Anyone else got this album?

Tom

  Been a bit poorly this last couple of weeks so I've got behind with what's going on.  But have just found a few minutes to read - through and have a bit of a laugh.

Thar's enough idea's and raw material here to produce a twentyfour hour epic.

Someone will have to wield a knife to trim this to a comfortable size. Now who's that "popular person goin'a be?   Actually that could be made into a theme - The Directors cuts"?!

Been following this thread with increasing interest :D

I have a few thoughts on making it a consistent/coherent project.

1. The overall sound.
I think some guidelines on mixing and patches used for guitar/bass/vocals would benefit the project. Also I think one person (or small group 2-3) should do the final mastering (it may be a good idea to send separate music and vocal tracks to make it easier to get an approximately same balance between music and vocals throughout the project).

2. Vocals.

Quote from: Blooby on September 01, 2010, 02:53:42 PMJust a suggestion.  Why not have one or two vocalists for the entire project to give it some continuity?

I have had almost the same thought. At least the roles in the story should have designated vocalists. 1 or 2 I think is too few. But if the storyline could be written to have some more roles, more people would be give the chance to sing. But I really think it's important to have the same singer in the same role throughout the whole thing.

3. "Administrating" the project.
I think more than one person is needed for this. One (of the admins?) should be in charge of the main project, deciding who get's what part/song to play, and keeping an overview of the progress. One person should have the role of coordinating the songs lyrics-wise, that is, be a consultant for all the songwriters on the lyrics. This may or may not be the person who writes the story outline. And as mentioned in 1., one to do the collection of the songs and do the final mastering.

Count me in. I need a framework!

Count me in. I need a framework!

Geir makes some good points, especially on the production side. A big decision needs to be made. Will this be a "loose" collaboration (a bunch of individual tracks with a connecting theme), or is the idea to produce a coherent virtual album? If the latter, some consistency of production will be required so that we get the overall sound, balance and levels that make the whole thing hang together.

I'll put myself up for production assistance if it is decided that is needed.

Cheers,

Nigel

Quote from: Ferryman on September 02, 2010, 04:07:11 AMI'll put myself up for production assistance if it is decided that is needed.

That would be the right man for the job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: tom r on September 02, 2010, 12:34:50 AM...We can do our own vocals and if nec we can redo songs with one or two singers later? by the way:
I got my copy of SF Sorrow out last night by the Pretty Things. I'd forgot how good it was. Anyone else got this album?

I was thinking the same about the contributions...that might be an interesting experiment.

S.F. Sorrow is great! I mean 'born'!  ;)

I agree with Geir and Nigel and Geir  :) - one way to reinforce cohesiveness is to have a single hand adding production polish to all of the songs.

Geir also makes a good point about having the same vocalist for any songs in the voice of a particular character in the story - that makes a lot of sense.

So we have Fuzz as director and Ferryman is production?
who fancies the main singing parts then? come come don't be shy ;-)
I've a fancy for being a dirty old lobster man but thats another story.......

Tom

I think maybe it's a good idea to have at least a vague description of the characters before the "casting" begins. In that way we can get voices that "fits" the characters.

I'd be happy to take a singing role, but not necessarily the main part. Maybe everyone who is willing to have a singing part can sign up, and someone (the director or someone who knows most of the voices here) can delegate the different roles. It would be nice to have some new voices in this project too!!  

Quote from: Geir on September 02, 2010, 03:05:49 AMBeen following this thread with increasing interest :D

I have a few thoughts on making it a consistent/coherent project.

1. The overall sound.
I think some guidelines on mixing and patches used for guitar/bass/vocals would benefit the project. Also I think one person (or small group 2-3) should do the final mastering (it may be a good idea to send separate music and vocal tracks to make it easier to get an approximately same balance between music and vocals throughout the project).

2. Vocals.

Quote from: Blooby on September 01, 2010, 02:53:42 PMJust a suggestion.  Why not have one or two vocalists for the entire project to give it some continuity?

I have had almost the same thought. At least the roles in the story should have designated vocalists. 1 or 2 I think is too few. But if the storyline could be written to have some more roles, more people would be give the chance to sing. But I really think it's important to have the same singer in the same role throughout the whole thing.

3. "Administrating" the project.
I think more than one person is needed for this. One (of the admins?) should be in charge of the main project, deciding who get's what part/song to play, and keeping an overview of the progress. One person should have the role of coordinating the songs lyrics-wise, that is, be a consultant for all the songwriters on the lyrics. This may or may not be the person who writes the story outline. And as mentioned in 1., one to do the collection of the songs and do the final mastering.

I think what you are saying here is on the money, bro.

What might help bind this together would be to assign a few members to help coordinate a couple sections, solidify the story outline and ultimately submit the wav files for review. This could be team based, and a member could be a part of any team he/she chooses, if not all of them - It may actually increase the level of participation because the task would not seem as ominous.

Quote from: Ferryman on September 02, 2010, 04:07:11 AMI'll put myself up for production assistance if it is decided that is needed.

Awesome! That would be cool!

As there will be lots and lots of wav files to work with, I'd be happy to help here as well.

Folks... I am finding this really inspiring... however I am gradually realizing that I have a different vision from the common head space in this thread.

I happily make my outline available if you want to use it, and I can continue developing it as a writing consultant.

But you are going to need a director / coordinator who is more in line with everyone's vision in order to produce a satisfying result.

The talent here is stellar and I relish the thought of seeing it soar at a new level.

Quote from: tom r on September 02, 2010, 07:13:03 AMI've a fancy for being a dirty old lobster man but thats another story.......

I've known a few - And yes, they do talk tourists into sticking their finger in a claw!

Quote from: FuzzFace on September 02, 2010, 07:57:34 AMFolks... I am finding this really inspiring... however I am gradually realizing that I have a different vision from the common head space in this thread.

I think the majority of the discussion in the past several posts has been about "if" and "how". If this turns into a forum sponsored event, those issues need to be dealt with first. It looks like at least one of the owners of the site is on board, so that can't be a bad thing!  ;)

Don't withdraw yet!

Quote from: FuzzFace on September 02, 2010, 07:57:34 AMFolks... I am finding this really inspiring... however I am gradually realizing that I have a different vision from the common head space in this thread.

I happily make my outline available if you want to use it, and I can continue developing it as a writing consultant.

But you are going to need a director / coordinator who is more in line with everyone's vision in order to produce a satisfying result.

The talent here is stellar and I relish the thought of seeing it soar at a new level.

      I think you're the only one who has volunteered to write the thing, so carry on, I say!! I think once the other 'posts' have been filled, the next stage will be the writer corresponds with the director to really get the project rolling...

                                               henwrench

Quote from: henwrench on September 02, 2010, 08:47:58 AMI think you're the only one who has volunteered to write the thing, so carry on, I say!!

Ok.  The thing is writing itself.  I'm just doing what it tells me.

If the group likes it enough to run with it than that would be awesome!

For the record, regarding the "narrator" idea, I personally would avoid using narration as far as possible because I like to let the audience connect the dots.

In terms of multiple characters with singing dialogue, perhaps there are a couple of places (e.g. the psychedelic/dream-sequence portions -- "Guernica" in my outline) à la Pink Floyd "The Trial" from The Wall, but I think it would be tricky to pull off a dialogue-heavy rock album and that sounds, um... what's the opposite of lame?  

I guess my vision is somewhere between a concept album and a rock opera.

* * *

More suggestions/ideas are welcome!  The best writing in my opinion is where an idea is added with every line... so ideas are needed!

* * *

It's Labour Day weekend here, and being a socialist that's like my Christmas... ha ha ha.

I'll let this incubate and come back next week with a vengence.

How about a group of people from around the world begin to hear some chords and these chords somehow lead them on a journey which eventually brings them together?
Bit like a musical close encounters of the third kind?
maybe not..... can i write a lobster man song? :-)

Tom

Quote from: tom r on September 02, 2010, 03:15:00 PM.... can i write a lobster man song? :-)

Ha ha....
Can someone fill me in on this running gag to do with the lobster?

Lobster-man, he's universal, he is all of us and none of us.  He can nourish whole gatherings with one small morsel of his sweet tender flesh, he can heal the sick, he can make you sick, just don't forget the butter.  Lobster-man is so much more than a running gag, he is all jokes ever told rolled into one, he is every note known to mankind sung at the same time, I am literally crying from the sheet majesty that is lobster-man as I type this...have.. to..stop..(sob sob)...typing now.  More to come........

(http://29.media.tumblr.com/NBzIYzYjuk3ovk7fLlj5XpBxo1_400.jpg)

I am just messing with you Fuzz.

Lobster-man was an idea I threw out way back in the beginning of this thread https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=8335.msg110811#msg110811, an idea I had while vacationing on PEI.  Probably a combination of too much sun, red ales and lobster while over there.  It is maybe one of the craziest or sanest ideas I have ever had, you have to decide.  I may still use the idea sometime, I am very attached to it for some stupid reason.  I  also like how other folks on here have latched onto Lobster-man and are keeping the memory alive.  Its for the children, really, that we need to keep the flame burning, the flame under the pot.  Lobster-man will rise from the ashes, he will live on.

I seem to remember having seen a lobster-baby here earlier too ......

Hey BB & Ferryman, thanks for the slowcoach support about 3 pages back - this thread is moving like wildfire...

FuzzFace, you're on fire, you get my vote to run the show

a group of musicians have success online sending mp3s wav files et al to and fro via the www. not because they have met over the internet and are taking advantage of new cyber technology, but because they all hate each other so much that cant be in the same room together, they even have court orders that insist they dont come within three miles of each other.

i can see it in lights now

jemima's kite the opera

Rob....  AK......


What a great concept!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: OsCKilO on September 05, 2010, 03:38:41 AMRob....  AK......


What a great concept!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did it go?  It just vanished, maybe that was part of the story, that is was all just a dream and it all went poof and vanished.  That is quite the concept Rob, so realistic too, I was reading it and it just vanished, I mean, I went to the bathroom, I was just getting to the ending, where all would be revealed, and poof, its gone.  Its like the meaning of life, you go to the bathroom and poof, its all gone, flushed down the toilet of time as it were.  Grand gesture there.

Very cool idea. If I can be useful to this somehow, i'd like to be a small part.

The vanishing posts .... that's a theme for the opera right there !

Quote from: Bluesberry on September 05, 2010, 09:25:50 AM

Quote from: OsCKilO on September 05, 2010, 03:38:41 AMRob....  AK......


What a great concept!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did it go?  It just vanished, maybe that was part of the story, that is was all just a dream and it all went poof and vanished.  That is quite the concept Rob, so realistic too, I was reading it and it just vanished, I mean, I went to the bathroom, I was just getting to the ending, where all would be revealed, and poof, its gone.  Its like the meaning of life, you go to the bathroom and poof, its all gone, flushed down the toilet of time as it were.  Grand gesture there.

You missed it guys....

It was amazing!!!!!

I hope Rob posts it again!
Was a lot of work, and really an interesting concept!

Quote from: henwrench on September 01, 2010, 09:59:35 AM(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1344/harrynilssonthepoint.jpg)

    I'm sure some of you freaks'll have heard this masterpiece. It's one of my favourite albums of all time. 'They fuck you up, your mom and dad...'

                                                 henwrench

A personal fave, actually. Glad to be included with the freaks.

I'm also gonna throw my two cents in. I'd be more than happy to contribute (or not as is deemed necessary) but I'm thinking it would be fun to have a hodgepodge of musical ideas and genres. Why not have a country standard be followed by a rap? And if it were me making the decision (and I'm not volunteering) It'd be a rough outline (like the one fuzz has made) where people can add more specific parts of the journey or not and sign up for a section and just write it. Then at the end it is all put together.

It'd be a compilation album not by genre but by storyline. It'd be less 'the wall' and more 'Raunchy Business' (which is a collection of raunchy songs not necessarily genre related.)

A compromise between the two views (one is a limited scope of type of music etc, the other being a hodge podge) would be once the tracks were assembled there'd be some collaborations that would connect the pieces instrumentally. It'd be super fun trying to write something that'd connect that country song to that rap song.

ON THE OTHER HAND, if you guys do get it together and have it be a cast of characters throughout, it'd be a huge undertaking with lots of problems to solve, but it has a much bigger upside in possibility. I'd still be willing to help, but I'm not sure how/what to contribute. Possibly we could write songs and then the director could pick and choose the ones that fit the best (as was suggested earlier) so we'd have kind of an audition fest in the works. Plus there would be the possibility of the bonus second disc (or third) of alternate not used material.

There are enough ideas here to make a few projects.

Hint hint... perhaps an administrator could create a list and the folks on the site could vote...

Who was it that said democracy works?  Some crazy philospher?


* * *

Here is a list of items I have mined from all the previous posts:

Hodgepodge of genres (i.e. country followed by rap following a common outline) allowing others to add parts to the outline
Loose collection of songs connected by a theme
Concept album (not so much plot- or dialogue-driven, but held together thematically)
Compilation of independently produced songs
Compile existing songs strung together to make a story.
Multiple characters each performed by a designated singer
One singer throughout
Each song performed by different people.
Each song written by a different writer following an outline.
Have a composer write a musical "theme" to bind it together
Include a narrator
Daisy-chain:  one person starts, and each participant waits their turn and writes a song picking up where the previous song left-off
Jemima's Kite The Opera
Opera about brilliant guy who unknowingly gets micro-chipped by the gov't, invents a time machine; gets into big trouble due to government involvement & control, and then slowly looses his mind
Story of how a dyslexic typist falls fowl of a mad cornish taxi driver, who locks her in his taxi playing songs on his 8 track whilst trying on her knickers
Opera reflecting life on Songcrafters.org
Lobster-man:  The Myth, The Legend
Opera about pitfalls of sex, drugs, rock'n roll... and rediscovering the meaning of music.
Opera glorifying sex, drugs and rock'n roll

I wrote these lyrics inspired by this discussion (some of the ideas are shamelessly stolen), expanding on the proposed outline I posted earlier in this thread:
(https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=8335.msg111485#msg111485)

If someone else wants to propose some re-writes, build on these, or write a completely different song for any given node in the outline... bring it on.  I'm not trying to dominate, I'm just letting it flow.

I know this is (a) not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and (b) potentially lame.  I always revise my lyrics at least 12 times, sometimes to the point that they are no longer recognizable.

I also realize this is all first-person, and possibly monotonous as a result.  I'm listening to Pink Floyd "The Final Cut" and Simon/Garfunkel to gain ideas on how to balance this out.  I want to take out the word "I" as much as possible and use less head-on, more colourful ways of expressing the ideas.

Ok, here is the first pass of a work in progress:


Barcelona Beach

Far away
from my home so grey
is a land of sand and sun and play
and when I'm there I have no name
I'm a man with a heart
There's no rules / there's no game

  Gurus would call it "zen" / I just call it "sane"
  Would you call it "zen"? / I would call it "sane"
  To have live a blissful day free of trouble and pain
  I ask myself what which is the better way
  to live the life I inherited or start fresh today?

Blue sky above and white sand below
under my feet and between my toes
waves they crash
the tide comes and goes
even busy bees stop
to smell a rose

  Nature deals the cards Nature or nuture? / Even plants have instinct
  Yet I choose my path / I am 'cause I think
  But when I open my eyes / and see the natural world
    I see who I am / I know what I'm for
  I know who I am / the knots come unfurled

[tempo change - slower]

 There's a place inside hiding in your core
  it was there long ago before there was ever a war
  it's protected well, safely locked down
  away from all thought / doesn't make any sound

  I'm hiding here and no one can tell
  I've been hiding from me / I've been hiding from hell
  Cloudless Sky, Starless Night
  I call out to you with all my might.



Boy Leading A Horse

The sky is infinite, the world is round
though all that I need is here on the ground

I tackle the mountains, I swing from the trees
I sail tall ships, making discoveries

I ride camels and horses / I bring countries to me
Every day is a trip / Life, a journey

My arms and my legs are servants to me
every machine and invention is empowering to empowers me

I don't ever see my very own face
though I see the wall in China / from up in outer space.



Guernica

My faceless nameless state of mind
sitting between fastforward and rewind
from across the table glares at me
and mockingly
he stares at me
revels in my agony
questions, what do
I purport to be?
What is even important to me?
When did I learn to tolerate
the very evil that I hate?
the world war became a cold war
made mankind a desparate whore
with a mathematical thirst for more
distance from all absolutes
To justify necessity
collectively
we mobbed and lynced simplicity
we happily stabbed honest life
with our newly sharpened cynical knife

I say "we"
but could it be
I set out to change the world
but the world changed me?

Thats bloody good lyrics Fuzz, I am impressed by these three songs of yours, to have pulled these out of the air like that.  You are a true poet man.

geurnica inspired me to go with a war theme here it is here https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=8421.0;msg=112359

There's been a lot of relatively random ideas posted here and it's hard to see how they will come together. But FuzzFace is actually driving stuff forward and I'd be happy to take that and run with it. My personal choices would be either:

a) A songcrafters rock opera with people taking different characters, or
b) a songcrafters concept album with a consistent theme and different collab groups doing different songs

Option a) would be cool but as FuzzFace points out in an earlier post, hard to organize and coordinate. Option b) would be easier and I am going to propose that we go with option b and use FuzzFace's Picasso concept. Why don't we get FuzzFace to write 11 sets of lyrics (if that is physically possible) and then get different collab teams/solo artists signed up to produce tracks as a concept album? We already have three fantastic sets of lyrics and those are already inspiring me.

I suspect if we try to agree on anything else, this thread will just continue and nothing else will happen. FuzzFace is leading the way for the Picasso concept album, I would be happy to follow.

What does everyone else think? Lobster Man - The Musical can always be a future project.....

Cheers,

Nigel

I agree with Nigel here, Lobster-man the musical can wait for another day, it is not yet time for Lobster-man, his time is the future, we wouldn't want to unveil his message to the masses too soon, it would spark global panic and possible usher in a new world-wide depression if not handled properly I fear.  As for the Picasso idea, and the three songs that Fuzz has put up, I think they are excellent lyrically and I am onboard with the idea.  Fuzz is on a roll lyrically and I would gladly take lyrics of this caliber and produce a song for the opera in solo mode or colaboration mode.  If you have any more lyrics in you Fuzz put them up.

I was worried about the impact of  Lobster Man if the concept gets out too early....... But probably not that worried! Now I am scared....

Thanks for the vote of confidence folks.  I'll try my best but others are welcome to try their hand at it too.  I know some folks expressed an interest in developing some of these ideas as well.  I have never co-wrote but I am up for the challenge.

Anyway, here is another work in progress...


Cup of Coffee
(This is the opener... I'm picturing distorted vocals)

You bridge the gap
between my young and my old soul
You've travelled the world
I've come in from the cold

You awaken, you tap
into the dream
you shatter the glass
of my sad role

You're story's been told
but I don't want to know
how it is that you came
to be so bold

Confined in this room
all I do is consume
a cog in the wheel
I perpetuate gloom

You're my only solace
while running an endless race
but with only one little taste
I can go and not leave a trace

Black gold that fuels the fire
as I push and I burn and I tire
for giants who wallow in mire
my feelings make me a liar

because poor people slave
to give me what I crave.

The Lovers

You're a good woman, my dear
But we've reached an impasse, I fear
We have too many colours inside
which I never wanted to hide

I would put it all out on the table
If only, my love, I was able
I hate that my love is not stable
Now I'm coming to tell you goodbye

One time we were on the same page
now it's dog-eared and torn and I misplaced the book
I have searched for myself but
I don't even know where to look

I'm not who I was nor am I the man I wanted to be
when I look in the mirror I can't say what I see
and the more I think of your love that I took
the more I feel like a crook

My dear you have so many dreams
and you'd willingly drop them for me
but if we live our lives independently
we'll both be all that we can be.



http://www.nga.gov/fcgi-bin/timage_f?object=46667&image=10521&c=

How about this?

11 songs
1 lyricist
2 singers (à la Pink Floyd)
1 consistent rhythm section for the whole project (i.e. 1 bassist, 1 drummer)
11 different guitarists (one for each song)

Ferryman produces (since he volunteered)

We record one song at a time to promote some kind of musical continuity.

Would this work?
Can we get some volunteers/nominations?

I nominate Satchwood and Gritter as the singers, Flash Harry as the bassist.

Who is the resident drummer in these parts?

Guitarists, speak now!

(It doesn't HAVE to be guitar, for example if your instrument of choice is mandolin, ukelele, baby sitar, electric kazoo, I wouldn't rule it out... as long as it ROCKS)

My idea was to leave it more open - once we get the lyrics, let's ask people to take the lyrics and work together in collab groups or on their own on each song. This is going to be a looser collaboration than a rock opera, it really is a concept album. So I don't personally see the need for the same people on each song, because the song themes are quite different. Also, asking the same people to do 11 songs will be time consuming and place quite a burden on several folks. Why don't we see what people think? Flash, Satch, everyone, raise your voices.....

I can use the production and mixing to get some consistency of the sound if we go for a more open approach.

Cheers,

Nigel

Hey if that will work... then let's do it!

Whatever works!

I def like to be involved in, or compose & record one of the songs;  sounds like a fun project, and i like the FuzzFace outline :~)

I really like Geir's idea of having separate singers for each role in the opera. I think that will make it a lot more interesting and coherent.

Regarding organisation/administration of the project, I think that should fall to the person with the original idea and storyline for the opera. He would be the Andrew Lloyd Webber of his opera, overseeing/directing/producing the whole project. Several interesting storylines have been presented in this topic. We could vote to see which one we'll go with, but I think a better idea is for the creator of each storyline to develop their rock opera independently. Here's what I propose:

1) Anyone who has an idea for a rock opera should submit a brief outline in this topic and ask for volunteers/collaborators to commit to the project.

2) Decide on a name for your rock opera.

3) When you have commitment from at least two other members, create a new topic with the name of your rock opera in the subject, along with the words "rock opera". Use this project topic to direct the project and recruit more help, if needed. That way, the general rock opera topic (this one) will not be overtaken by one project, giving other projects a better chance to get started.

Initially, I think the songs should be composed only as rough outlines (just guitar and vocals, for example) and submitted to the director along with the lyrics. The director can then suggest changes that need to be made to the song to make it fit the story and his vision. In addition to lyrical amendments, he can also suggest changes in music and instrumentation to set the mood for the piece. Vocals for these rough drafts would be done by the songwriter. However, they should be re-recorded later by the singers assigned to each role. So, a single song might end up featuring several singers. Songwriters should keep this in mind when writing and try to feature different characters from the story in their song. Although, it is also possible to have one or more songs involving only a single character. That would be up to the director.

You can use the collaborations board for posting and reviewing your rough drafts if you like. However, I suspect that most people will want to use email, SkyDrive, etc. instead so that they can keep their work under wraps until the finished opera is ready to be posted in its entirety. I will create a jukebox page for the completed rock opera, including any additional material the director would like to submit, such as lyrics, credits, graphics, commentary, etc.

I don't want the rock operas to replace our regular festivals. However, I'll add an option to the next festival poll to skip the festival so that people can work on their operas instead. If enough people vote for taking a break from the festivals, then there will be no festival from Oct 17th till Nov 27th. YuleFest begins Nov 28th.

FuzzFace: It sounds like you're about ready to roll on your project. If you've got a name for it, why don't you post a new topic now for your rock opera and get started.

If anyone else wants to get rolling with their own idea, they can do so by following the three steps I proposed above. This can be an ongoing thing here at Songcrafters, so there's no rush to start a rock opera project today if you'd prefer to refine your ideas a bit or wait until you have more time before proposing your rock opera concept.

Quote from: FuzzFace on September 09, 2010, 08:46:51 PMI nominate Satchwood and Gritter as the singers, Flash Harry as the bassist.

Who is the resident drummer in these parts?

Guitarists, speak now!

(It doesn't HAVE to be guitar, for example if your instrument of choice is mandolin, ukelele, baby sitar, electric kazoo, I wouldn't rule it out... as long as it ROCKS)

Hey FuzzFace...I'd love to sing on it. Thanks for the nomination!

64G, good ideas but we're already moving too fast..... This idea looks like it's going to be a concept album rather than a rock opera, the concept we're running with being that FuzzFace is writing 11 sets of lyrics inspired by Picasso paintings. So we will have the lyrics done and that will inspire the musicians to produce the music and sing the songs. There won't be roles as such because each song will be different, the link is the paintings and the artist. So I suggest we start a topic callled The Picasso Concept Album or something like that and sign up the folks that are interested.

We need to decide on how the music will be produced (by assigned roles or individual groups). But that is what we are discussing now, might be best to do that in a separate thread.

Cheers,

Nigel

Yes I'm going to start a dedicated thread.

I like the idea of breaking off, because as 64Guitars said, there are plenty of other ideas here and I don't want my little concept to hold up other ideas from flowing as well.

I won't get hung up on the semantics of rock opera versus concept album for now.

We can pick up the discussion regarding logistics in the new thread.

All on board, come on over...

https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=8458.0

Thanks for launching this inspiring idea, 64Guitars!

QuoteHiya guys,
Not been on here for a while----ummm----hold on----a bloody long time actually!!! Been lurking though. In fact not been on anywhere,or playing,or anything, for some time. Some of you know I had that little stroke type thingy end of last year, and had 2 major-ish ops to clean out my Carotid arteries, plus other general crap going on, but things are starting to get a bit better now, so hopefully should be around a bit more.

just noticed this steve is such a busy thread, glad to see you back hope you are fit and healthy again and that all is well with you and yours

In another topic, bruno wrote:

Quote from: bruno on December 25, 2015, 11:11:38 AMwow - this is a knockout track, and a knock out idea - was thumbing through the jukeboxes and came across the "Suffering Machines" https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?action=festival;sa=SuffMach (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?action=festival;sa=SuffMach) What a great idea - using the collaborate output of songscrafters to produce a single coherent piece of art. We should do something similar again!!! This is such a cool idea.

If anyone is interested in doing another concept album or rock opera, they're welcome to do so. I don't have time to organise it myself, but I'd be happy to create the jukebox and offer any other support needed from the site.

As with the Suffering Machines project, you should create a new topic in General Discussion to propose your specific project and discuss it with anyone who might be interested in taking part. For example, here's the topic that was created for the Suffering Machines project:

https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=8458.0 (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=8458.0)

One person should act as director of the project, outlining the concept and organising everything. That person would have final say in all decisions for editing, production, and lyrics. I think that's necessary to provide the continuity that's needed for such a project. FuzzFace did a great job directing Suffering Machines.

Suffering Machines turned out to be a concept album rather than a rock opera. That's fine and if anyone wants to do another concept album, they're quite welcome to do so. However, I'd still like to see a real rock opera project. Something along the lines of "Jesus Christ Superstar", where each member plays the part of a character in a sort of play or story. So, instead of each member singing a whole song, several members could have lines in each song in a sort of conversation style. I think that would be really interesting and a lot of fun.

This is such a cool idea, I'm really tempted to try an do this. It would be interesting to see who would be interested in doing this. My feeling is that it would be 12 tracks of a concept album, all tracks collabs of two or more songcrafters. The trouble would be finding time to bring the whole thing together. It would be audacious though! I have no idea what the concept would be though!
B