Does anyone else get periods when they doubt themselves musically?
I'm in a real rut with my songs. It's not a writing block, because I'm working at the same prolific rate. But everything sounds wrong to my ears. It's almost like I'm bored with myself and the way I play and sing. I wonder if some kind of musical 'holiday' would do the trick - i.e. just take a break from songwriting. I'd be interested to hear of anyone else has periods like this. Maybe it's not the music even... maybe it's just everything else hanging like a dark cloud over the songs.
I'm even thinking about exploring the murky depths of alternate tunings to spark some life into me!
away and bile yer heid tim. lmao.
i think we are all our own worst critics. i have never been enamoured by my musical abilities, which is no surprise cos i dont really have any to speak of. i just hit things and they make sounds.
but when i get stuck, i find hitting something new gets me inspired. you know every time you get a new piece of kit, or learn a new chord or technique, stuff comes out. thats why i love my juno. its gonna take me years to work through all the patches.
and another things how many times have you sent me a mike stuff saying "i think this is shit" and we end up with a great song. at least 50% of the time lol.
i find doing stuff on my own a labour and tiresome but, when you bounce ideas of others, sometimes magical things happen.
Cheer up Greeny - do something non-musical for a while - then you will realise how much you are missing your recording and it will seem like fun again. (That's what I find anyway - a bit of a change to recharge the batteries...) - Kev
My periods of doubt start at about 6:15 when the alarm goes off til about 22:30 when I shut my eyes.
You have nothing to worry about. Actually, you need to get together with Jim and me in a studio for a few days.....
deffo
Yeah, take a break. Part of your issue is that you are so prolific that it must be hard to be "original" each time. Mind you, for me some of your recent solo work has been some of my fave, so the skill can't be leaving you, but you do make life very hard for yourself.
Why not reduce your solo output for a while, spend some time cruising other sites like Soundclick to see what other folks are up to, or perhaps spend time finding out about another aspect of music creation. I'm reading a lot about mastering at present which is very interesting and I'm contemplating geeting some mastering software. I may end up doing nothing about it but it's still interesting to read about it. Or go buy a new toy that will encourage you to try a diferent musical style - I have a Boss Slicer pedal sat waiting to be used and I'm sure it will encourage me to do something different once I get the time to play with it.
I don't have an issue with sounding the same because I produce so little stuff but I do have distinct musical styles that I am pursuing, general solo stuff which is pop/punk, my prog-sih concept album and I also plan to do more modern sounding electronica stuff with the K-Pro and Slicer. And I'm also jamming with my ol dband occasioanlly. So I tend to spend more time on one area when I get a bit "tired" of the others.
Cheers,
Nigel
I'm like Flash. I swim in doubt every day. I think it is part of being a "Type A" personality (I assume there are probably lots of us on this site).
I've shared a number of my songs with many people who haven't given me the slightest inclination that they have even listened to them.
I find this site is great for support and inspiration, but sometimes there is a human element missing. I think sometimes you need to "hear" somebody clap or sing along to one of your songs. Playing live fills that void if you can find the time to do it.
Just knowing that there are people all over the world with my songs on their IPods is an amazing feeling for me and justification for what I do. I wish I could play just one gig in everyone's town.
Tim - you are so prolific that maybe subconsciously you feel that you have to always meet a certain bar. You definitely have a high degree of professionalism attached with your music - and that's good. I think we need to push ourselves to get better at our craft. Maybe it's time to try and promote your music professionally. Have you ever tried to sell one of your songs, or have an industry person give you feedback?
I agree with Nigel. a new piece of equipment might spark some interest. I find that simply switching between the Strat and the Les Paul gives me inspiration.
Whatever you need – I hope you find it, because you are a fantastic musician and songwriter.
I have a fairly sanguine approach to this:
If you didn't have self-doubts you wouldn't be quite so good at it...(So one's friends, relatives, pets, and so on are just going to have to put up with the whinging... it's part of the packaging :D)
And:
Try and keep it all in perspective...Especially these two:
- Omigod, I'm utterly useless... how on earth did I write all those songs last week/month/year/century?
- Omigod, I'm a flipping genius... just wait til folks start hearing this one...
I am constantly prey to these two emotions.
And finally:
Don't become a slave to your own creations...You're the boss, not them.
Play with other stuff, do some painting/drawing, get some quality sofa-time in... (I'm particularly fond of that last one :D)
EDIT: Vanncad posted his while I was typing - he's got a good point about "maybe subconsciously you feel that you have to always meet a certain bar" ... I have this a
lot - and the bar is always the last song for me... I kinda feel everything has to be better than the last thing... But it doesn't, it can't be, not everytime...
Thanks guys. I really appreciate all of you. And this site.
Vanncad's point about trying to meet a certain bar really resonated. That seems to be the main problem. I'm always looking for the 'big one'... that song which you know and feel is something special. Even though you know it can't be forced, you're always looking and reaching for it. And then when it turns out as an 'album track', you're disappointed.
Quote from: Vanncad on May 18, 2010, 06:09:58 AMMaybe it’s time to try and promote your music professionally. Have you ever tried to sell one of your songs, or have an industry person give you feedback?
I know that it's time for me to do this. But I have an avoidant personality. I hate conflict of any kind, and it means I end up thinking about a lot of things but never actually doing them. Songwriting is my distraction - it's what I do whilst everything else is left to fall apart. I really do want to appraoch people and submit songs to places. But it's scary. I need to get a grip of myself first. I had the same problems when I was doing illustration - the fear of rejection when you show people your work and portfolio was crippling for me.
Thanks guys! I mean it!
I think most of us have been there. Everything you play or sing sounds like something you've already done. You don't feel especially inspired about anything you play. The lyric won't flow and even sounds inane. Your baby sister (or daughter) is keeping better time and has more interesting rhythms while pounding her spoons on her high chair.
But I've got a miraculous fix. It'll only cost you $20 US currency and I promise it will.....
okay I jest. But how many of us would actually pay it if there were only a slight chance it would work? Well here are a few ideas. Maybe one will help you out.
1 - Play a different instrument. Especially one you have never played. Got a friend that can loan you a mandolin? Got a four string banjo at the local pawn shop for 40 bucks? It's worth it. Oh, I can hear it now. "But I don't know how to play that thing!" Of course not. That's why you write a melody or a chord progression on it. Because you can't rely on muscle memory (or your favorite scale) anything you come up with won't be the same ol' boring same ol'. Figure out a few chords by ear.. don't go to a website to figure it out but explore the instrument on your own.
2 - Can't afford or borrow a new/unknown instrument? Use a new tuning on your guitar. Force yourself to use all 5 black keys on the piano. Use bigger intervals in your melodies if you are a singer. Try something new/different and you are more likely to get something that sounds new or different.
3 - Give yourself limitations. I have found time and time again that I am more creative when I set limitations. You can use a song challenge generator. Try this page: http://www.paulturrell.com/challenge/ (http://www.paulturrell.com/challenge/) or you can view all of the elements here: http://www.paulturrell.com/challenge/showchallenges.cgi (http://www.paulturrell.com/challenge/showchallenges.cgi) and here is a list of the weekly song challenges as used on FAWM.ORG these past few years: =challenges]http://fawm.org/wiki/past_challenges?s[]=challenges (http://fawm.org/wiki/past_challenges?s[)
4 - Try writing a song with the bass line first. You don't have to play it on bass, but you do have to come up with a bass line. The rhythm and chords may surprise you and most certainly won't sound the same as a song in which you start with a riff.
5 - Listen to and write in a genre you normally don't listen to or write in. Don't listen to country? Find a classic and write a song in a similar vein. "Sunday Morning Coming Down" or anything by Hank Williams is a great place to start. Can't do pure country? Try Country-Punk ala Hank III. Some great stuff there. Or pick another genre. Write a song that would work as a movie theme. Write a song that incorporates elements of classical piano. Create some sound art.
6 - Write a song as if you were another band. Wanna try something new and different? Write a song that might work on an ELO album. Or a Pink Floyd album. Or a Sex Pistols album. Or whatever.
7 - Collaborate. Stuck in a rut? Find a fellow songcrafter and ask to collaborate. See if they have any unfinished ideas you can work on. Or see if you have something that is sounding same-ish that they could add something to. Or best of all start from scratch. GMail sends files up to 25 mb as attachments so you can trade files back and forth. A friend, Nancy Rost, used this method a few times. She would start with a bass line (or drum line or another musical element) and send it to the her collaborator. Then they would add an instrument and send it back. They traded back and forth until they both added 2-4 tracks. Granted those songs may never be pop hits, but it sure does get you out of a funk. And sometimes you find something genius.
8 - Take some perspective. Usually when you listen back to a song after taking a week or a month away from it your analysis changes. You aren't as attached to the creation of the song and can listen to it critically without all the baggage of being an artist. OR literally change perspective. Write a song from a point of view you wouldn't normally use. If you are a guy, write a song from the perspective of a house wife. If you are a gal, write a song about being embarrassed about male pattern baldness.
9 - Change the arrangement. Do you always write a song for guitar/voice. Do you always record bass drums guitar and vox? Change the arrangement. Have the bass line take the melody for a bit. Add piano as the main voice. Use harmonies in your vocals. Figure out a new way of doing the same thing you always do.
10 - Purposefully use dissonance. The intro to "Purple Haze" uses a tri-tone between guitar and bass. Lots of classical music uses dissonance to build tension. Figure out a way to make something that sounds 'wrong' on first listen to sound right. You can read about it here to get you started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consonance_and_dissonance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consonance_and_dissonance)
Good luck!
Wow! Thanks TC. That's a very detailed response! There are some fantastic tips in there. I really appreciate the time you spent putting them down. I will be trying quite a few of those.
This should be made into a permanent thread for anyone else who runs into a similar brick wall, because there's a lot of good and exceptionally practical advice for anyone who makes music in the way we do.
Great Post Tim!!!
Some really great Thoughts and Responses Here!!
I feel the Same way sometimes that everything I Write and record sounds Wrong.
I have just Started to Explore the World of Alternate tunings.
I have been experimenting with Open C, D Tunings and I am Having a lot of fun with them. Its amazing on How you can Hear So many Different Classic and Popular songs that used these Tunings By just experimenting with them.
I think as long as I am having fun. Thats all that matters!
Rock on Tim! Your music has been a great inspiration to me to keep on Playing on Writing!
JIM
A friend is compiling a free EBook '10 secrets of songwriting' or '10 tips for songwriting' or something. I contributed to it a while back and am hoping it is available shortly. It doesn't specifically deal with writer's block or staleness but I would be willing to bet some of the suggestions in there would help.
If/when it comes out I'll be sure to put up a link. And if anyone is wanting to contribute to it you can get the information here: http://www.songwright.co.uk/2010/05/08/10-songwriting-tips-the-story-so-far/ (http://www.songwright.co.uk/2010/05/08/10-songwriting-tips-the-story-so-far/)
Thanks for the kind words and I truly hope it helps.
Let me share a story:
Many years ago, I worked at a job that was driving me nuts. My new boss was an idiot, and the stress was not worth it. One particularly sh*tty day, I just jumped in my car and left. I had been playing in a band for years, and had written some songs and thought I had some pretty good stuff.
When I got home that day, I had no idea what I was going to do next. I had just left a job that I had devoted many years of my life to (right out of highschool). I started looking on-line at different song writing websites to see if there was any information about how to get into the business. This was about 10 years ago, so there weren't as many resources as there are now.
Anyways - I got on a site for ASCAP (http://www.ascap.com/index.aspx) (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers), and found out that the president (I think that's what he was at the time) was from my hometown.
I sent him an e-mail, not really expecting a response.
To my surprise - the guy called my house that afternoon and we talked for about 45 minutes. I asked him about getting into the songwriting business, and he told me this. Quote: "Unless you are willing to relocate to Nashville, L.A., or Vancouver, you're chances of being a professional songwriter are pretty slim".
I decided to go to college and get a diploma instead. ;D
Now - remember this was about 10 years ago and things have changed dramatically. Just look at the way collaborations are done on this site and how many professional musicians are doing the same thing. There really is no reason to have to relocate your family to sell a song these days.
I have also sat at a friend's house and watched this guy (Bobnoxious (http://www.bobnoxiousrock.com)) call record labels on the back of cassettes, to try to get his band promoted. He is now opening for the Scorpions at Sarnia Ontario's Bayfest this year.
The point I guess is that you shouldn't be afraid to call or e-mail anyone with questions regarding anything. There are some really nice, helpful people out there. You just have to ask yourself if it's something you want to pursue professionally.
I personally think your stuff would stand up.
Tim,
I seem to remember reading somewhere around these parts, that you like to have a song 'finished' before you begin to record it. Old henwrench works in totally the opposite way... I write as I record, always have done. All my shit is made up as I go along. I'll have the loosest of ideas, sometimes just a 'concept', such as the thought of hiding under someones bed (Jane's Room) or a few chords that may or may not end up in the sequence I originally thought of. All other bits, bass etc are 'written' as I record them. Plus, I never, ever practice anything. I just play it for real. The downside to this approach is that I haven't got a clue what any of my 'songs' are. I just get in the bubble and only pop it when I'm done, then instantly forget everything I've done, usually because the real world comes knockin'...
And yeah, learning a new instrument is invaluable. Chords sound different on the ukulele to the guitar, for example. So write a song on an alien instrument to stop your fingers going back to a comfortable position. Also, never have preconceived ideas, let your ideas take you for a ride and enjoy...
henwrench
Quote from: henwrench on May 18, 2010, 11:52:19 AMI seem to remember reading somewhere around these parts, that you like to have a song 'finished' before you begin to record it. Old henwrench works in totally the opposite way... I write as I record, always have done. All my shit is made up as I go along. I'll have the loosest of ideas, sometimes just a 'concept', such as the thought of hiding under someones bed (Jane's Room) or a few chords that may or may not end up in the sequence I originally thought of. All other bits, bass etc are 'written' as I record them. Plus, I never, ever practice anything. I just play it for real. The downside to this approach is that I haven't got a clue what any of my 'songs' are. I just get in the bubble and only pop it when I'm done, then instantly forget everything I've done, usually because the real world comes knockin'...
henwrench
Hey Henwrench, this sounds 100% to how I write my songs too. I have a few chords, some vague idea of subject, turn on the machine and see where it goes. Almost every time. Its always a mystery to me. Lately I am thinking of trying to map one out completly beforehand, just for the hell of it because I almost never do it this way. I guess the point is try something different than the usual "normal" way of doing things once in a while. I am not very prolific, I can usually only manage one original song a month, so once I am finsihed something, with a few days/week off, I am ready to get back in the saddle again.
The whole songwriting thing is such a bloody mystery and I an continually amazed that I come up with stuff at all on a regular basis. It is a blessing really. I say either take a break, or do the opposite, write a 35 minute opus, go crazy, let it all out, lets have one song that lasts for a whole album. I don't know the answer at all. Its all a mystery to me.
I'm glad I don't have creativity issues when it comes to writing songs, since I'm so infrequent with it. My stumbling block is coming with commenting on posted music. My complete lack of musical insight leaves me with very little to say. I feel terrible for canned comments.
I take that back, my stumbling block is a lack of ability to get whats in my head on to a fretboard.
Add me to that list of Henny and BB! I write most everything AS I record it. It just works a lot better for me. I tend to get stuck if I try to write to whole thing first. It's exciting to start recording and not know how it is gonna end ;) It keeps my interest that way.
Also... whenever I feel like I am stuck writing my own stuff, I'll take a break and do a cover song. That is why I like the Fests so much. It allows me to not have to think nearly as much beyond how I wanna change a song.
I usually get a verse and a chorus then put it down on tape (ok on the BR -900.) Then I work on it some more until I have the song pretty much finished. All the lyric finished (possibly to be re-written as I record etc) and all the sections pretty much done. So the chords and rhythm etc are usually done for the verse and chorus, intro and pre chorus and bridge if it has any of those.
Then I record and arrange. Decide what instruments to use and what goes where. BUT, as I do this and play sometimes it changes as I add stuff. If I hear a crunchy guitar I might record it and then not use it or only use it in places. If I hear an active bass line I might later re-record a very tame one instead etc. Almost always there's a tweak to the lyric as I sing it. While I might have a scratch track the vocal is the last or next to last I record most of the time. Lead bits and that sort of thing might be last or added as an afterthought.
So to me it's two parts that sometimes overlap. Writing and arranging/recording. It sounds to me like for some of you the writing and arranging bits are pretty much combined. Which is very cool. I've done that a few times myself and I like it a lot. But I don't normally work that way.
My way sometimes I can listen to a song and then decide from the get-go that it will change. Ie, it's pretty folky and then I can added a drum part or heavy guitar and make it much more of a rock song. Your way those decisions seem a bit more a part of the song itself. My way is the glove and your way is the hand? At least sometimes? Ah well I'm rambling and gotta go get the kid.
i hit things and see what happens, then if something okay happens i hit something else. and like henny when its done its done, i find it almost impossible to reproduce a song ive done, unless i try right away. i move onto the next one and hit more stuff.
No it isn't just you, we all have periods of self doubt, usually for me when I've been to a gig and seen somebody or heard something that's knocked my socks off. I stopped playing for about ten years when the last band I was with turned pro and I'd been down that route 40 years ago, great fun but no pension. Having bought a BR900cd and finding this site (purely by chance) I am revitalised and can't wait to either get on with the playing and writing or listening to what everybody else is posting. 10 years off is a bit drastic, maybe take a break for a couple of days and see if if that recharges the batteries. I bet it does. Willie
Tim this is an awesome thread indeed!
I am of the school of thought that we all have these feelings
they stem from little insecurities deep within us.....
You indeed have a 'sound', that is instantly recognizable as 'Greeny!!!!
This is TRUE!
But, this is not a bad thing....
How about the Beatles, or the Doors, or the Who, or anyone else!
Instantly we know who it is....
The Beatles went to India to change up the pace, shall we say.
If I may speak for myself, I personally not only look forward
to your new postings, but I think of you as a modern day John Lennon!
So, I say, Stand up, Buckle up, and get cracking, at the new material....
We are all waiting to hear your stuff Tim!
Your fan and fellow musician,
LG
http://garyewer.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/four-suggestions-for-dealing-with-writers-block/ (http://garyewer.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/four-suggestions-for-dealing-with-writers-block/)
Just saw this today. Gary's blog is usually pretty good.
Great link T.C. Everything he says is true ;). Listening to different genres especially. It makes you think in a way you wouldn't normally do, and play things you wouldn't normally play when you're on automatic pilot, but you're own style you've built up will always have precedence & this makes for some great ideas, which at first don't feel like your own, but in fact they're totally your own. This also stops you from writing yourself into a corner, where nothing you can think of sounds like the rest of the stuff you've wrote. Don't throw anything away. Record as much as possible. Even if you're not convinced what you've just written is any good, go back to it later and listen with fresh ears.A melody you had at the time might not be working, but the chords were great. Get a dictaphone & hum melodies over your tune. You'll find the classic.
You're still writin em & all sound great ;D
Everyone -young and old has been down this road so many times
Music should be enjoyable -even fun-(now that can be hard work-)
but we are all limited in what we know/do/or try and play-
really -top priority should be enjoyment -
A 3 chord/2 chord/even a one chord song ( I did a one chord song a while ago /one of our new members has posted a one chord song)-it's firstly for your enjoyment-
I've recorded this one -it's OK-will I post it????-YES!!!!!!!
If you pleased with the way a song turns out -post it!!
Songwriting is (to me -a hit and miss affair) when nothing happens -I go back to basics and do an easy cover
When it sounds OK -I will post it. It's great if it goes down well -but it's the fact that being part of songcrafters that is special and the gang here.
So Kenneth -if you cant come up with a new song -go and do a cover-
Good luck buddy-hit that red button.
Tommy
Looking forward to hearing the results from jim.
It's a funny old game,sometimes it flows like a river ,other times you've got to wait for a drop to appear ;D