Hi there guys,
Lately I've been thinking of making an important change to microrecorders.org: expanding the website and the forum to all the Boss BR Digital Recorders. In terms of design, the general design and feel would be the same, only changing the Boss Micro BR Community titles to Boss BR Community and adding other references to the BR's. The articles and tutorials page would also be expanded and some tutorials about the other BR's would be created as well as finishing the others I have planned about the Micro BR. Same as the Downloads and FAQ pages.
Regarding the forum, I don't really know how to do it yet. There are about 9 BR's, the Micro BR, BR-532 (discontinued), BR-600, BR-8 (discontinued), BR-864 (discontinued), BR-900, BR-1180 (discontinued), BR-1200CD and BR-1600CD. I would like the forum to have a place for talking about all these recorders. One thing I've thought that should be done is merging the Rhythm & Drums and Effects boards and sub-boards to one boad (Onboard Drums and Effects) for the sake of space. Regarding the other BR's there are several options for organizing them:
1. Create a section equal to the one Micro BR has for every BR.
2. Group them in groups of 3 or more based on similar features and way of use and creating 3 different sections for those groups.
3. Create only one section for all the BR recorders.
I think that this change would be a very positive thing for microrecorders.org but I'm also afraid that it can affect in a negative way what we all have created until now so I would like to know what you think about the idea of expanding the website and the forum to all the BR's and your opinion about the forum organization.
Pedro,
Bom dia. My first thought is that there are at least two other large forums that already do what you're talking about. As a Micro user, I really don't find it much fun to weed through all the other stuff on the Yahoo BossBR group to find things that pertain to the Micro or worse: think I'm reading about the Micro only to find someone with a different Boss posted in the thread and that the information doesn't pertain to my Micro. The Intermorphic group has a large number of followers, but the Micro area of the site doesn't get much business. For Micro users, yours is THE site.
Personally I think you have a niche that you own. You need to be applauded for your accomplishment. It's not easy to get 460 Micro users in one place. This kind of success is typically the result of two things: you putting up a great, useful site and active, knowledgeable participants who are helpful to others and willing to stick to matters at hand.
I think it would be better to figure out how to get more Micro users who don't know of this site to find it and participate. I know with what you have made here you could make a big Boss recorder site a success, but it would take a lot of work and probably also take a while to attract users since they would now have to add another board to visit.
I like your current organization. If you do create a group with all the other recorders, I think that option 1 is best. Mixing the different recorders would be chaos.
Keep up the good work,
Kevin
hi first off thanks to pedro and the rest this site has been very helpful.i love this microbr,i've only just started fooling with it and it's a better product than the hype and that is kinda rare in guitar player land.i have to say i agree with the last poster.keep the site micro specific.even though the unit seems to be simple to operate(even for an old dude like me) the manual leaves a little to be desired and this site has been great at picking up the slack.i think as any newbies get more into the various functions and capabilities we might benefit from the info on this site.keeping the site micro specific just helps to simplify thing and again for newbies keeps anxiety level down.kudos to boss on a fine product i am definately spreading the word!!
I think the site is fine as is too, seems to be picking up steadily in the short time I have been posting here. Questions are being answered and there is a good community building. I would keep it specific. I recomend the MBR to anyone thinking of getting a recorder, though most ppl I know on the other forum I use record to PC, and would certainly be telling anyone who gets one to check this place out!
Quote from: jkevinwolfe on April 26, 2008, 12:34:31 PMAs a Micro user, I really don't find it much fun to weed through all the other stuff on the Yahoo BossBR group to find things that pertain to the Micro or worse: think I'm reading about the Micro only to find someone with a different Boss posted in the thread and that the information doesn't pertain to my Micro.
It's a shame that you look at it that way. You're missing the whole point of the Yahoo BossBr group. All of the BRs are very similar in operation and features, and you can learn a lot about your Micro BR by reading about the other BR models.
I own a BR-864 and it's the only BR I've ever used. I haven't even
seen most of the other models, including the Micro BR. And yet, I've been answering questions about the Micro BR and other BR models in this group and several others for years. How do you suppose I can do that when I've never even seen these other BRs? It's because I've downloaded and read the manuals for the other models and could see right away that most of the procedures and features are identical to my BR-864. So, when someone asks about v-tracks and bouncing on the Micro BR, for example, I can explain it to them because it works exactly the same as it does on my BR-864. To ensure that my answer is accurate, I'll usually consult the appropriate BR manual before replying in case there are any minor differences I need to allow for in my answer. But in most cases there are no differences.
When I bought my BR-864 four years ago, I started searching the web for information about it. I found the Yahoo BR-864 group and joined. Hungry for more information, I also joined the BR-532 group and found that much of the advice offered there could be applied to my BR-864. Before long, I found myself answering a lot of beginner's questions in both groups. When the BR-900CD came out in 2005, a new Yahoo group was formed for the BR-900. I joined that group too and found that people were asking the same questions that had been asked in the BR-864 and BR-532 groups. Then the BR-600 came out in 2006 and, again, I started reading more of the same questions. Later that year, the Micro BR was announced and users were still asking the same questions. And the answers really hadn't changed much. So, it occurred to me that having separate groups for each BR model was
not the best way to go. It makes more sense to have a single group that covers all of the BRs. That way, everyone can benefit from the discussions, regardless of which particular BR model they use.
Of the memory card based BRs (900/864/600/532/MicroBR), the Micro BR has the most differences (but there are still more similarities than there are differences). So, there may be some merit in keeping a separate discussion area at microrecorders.org for the Micro BR. Actually, the Micro BR has a lot in common with the BR-532. They're both 4 track recorders and offer only preset drum patterns. So maybe a combined Micro BR/BR-532 area would be a good idea. In any case, I see no harm in creating another area for 600/864/900 users. These three BRs are nearly identical in operation and features and their files are nearly 100% compatible, so it makes sense to keep them together.
Whatever Pedro decides to do, I strongly recommend that all Micro BR users read about the other BRs as well. You'll learn a lot more about your Micro BR that way, and recording in general. Most of what you read about the other BRs also applies to your Micro BR. For that matter, there's a lot of good advice that applies to
any recorder. For example, if someone recommends a good microphone and mic preamp, wouldn't they work just as well on a Micro BR, BR-600, Fostex, Zoom, TASCAM, Yamaha, or any other recorder? Likewise, if someone offered advice on microphone positioning for recording acoustic guitar, it would apply to any recorder, regardless of brand or model. So don't ignore information about the other BR models. You'll be missing a lot if you do.
I also find it interesting to learn about the few differences between the BRs. Just the other day, I answered a question in the BossBr group about the BR-8. While looking at the BR-8 manual, I learned of a couple of unique features that I wasn't aware of. The BR-8 can display an 8 x 8 grid of all 64 v-tracks so you can see at a glance which v-tracks are used and which are empty. Also, it allows you to enter a short name for each v-track. I wish all of the BRs had that feature. Naming the v-tracks would make it much easier to keep track of what's recorded where.
The Micro BR is the newest model in the BR series and has only been available for just over a year. So, a forum dedicated only to the Micro BR will have fewer members, and those members will have less experience, than a forum covering all BR models. By opening up the forum to all BR users, there will be a lot more people available to answer questions and offer advice. And those people will generally have more experience with BRs than most Micro BR users have, due to its newness. There are a few members in the Yahoo BossBr group who have owned several BR models over the years and can offer some good advice based on their experience. Also, a larger member base means more people available for collaborations. All of the BRs can import and export wave files, so collaborations between users of different BR models shouldn't be a problem.
Finally, this website is microrecorders.org, not microBR.org. When Pedro first started the site, I was under the impression that it would cover
all small recorders. In fact, I recall seeing a few things about the Zoom here, and the main page still has an item about a Marantz recorder. I think that continuing that theme to include other small recorders could be a good thing. Afterall, you probably won't have your Micro BR forever. If you upgrade to a newer model in a few years, wouldn't it be nice if you could still find support for it here and continue to be a part of this friendly microrecorder.org community?
Quite a reply, and you have plainly given the subject a great deal of thought! You make some very valid points here, I guess that the direction of the forum should go whichever way is good for it. I came here looking to learn more about using the thing, this is my second forum if you like, I am far more active on Guitarblast. As it turned out I find myself answering (or trying to) more than I ask (I have actually read the manual, several times lol) I stay as it is a very friendly place, and IMHO that is the important thing that needs to be kept ... friendly, helpful and non judgmental advice and support..... I am sure that most here will have seen similar forums where dumb questions are answered with RTFM!!!! The question ain't dumb to the guy asking it, and he does not know that it has been asked many times before. That does not happen here (even if he really should have read the book) and I like that. Keep that aspect, make sure that the forum is searchable for the individual recorders, and all will be well I think ;D
64,
I guess my biggest concern is that there are already a few sites that cover all the BRs. Is another overkill? I feel we are really lucky to have this site which specifically addresses the Micro. I did a lot of research before buying and got very confused trying to figure out what the BR did and didn't do. When I found this site, things became a lot more clear. Your level of expertise on the various recorders is just amazing and the differences in them probably all seems second nature to you. I have spent a huge hunk of my life in audio control rooms, but I still have a lot to learn about using the Micro.
What Pedro has done here is created more than a question and answer board. It's very much a little community that shares ideas, songs and even collaborates. Maybe part of my suggestion of keeping this site pure is out of a sense of protectiveness. I'd hate to see things get too diversified and lose the camaraderie that's here now. Pedro has set up sections that cover other recorders, recording techniques and things that don't necessarily apply to the Micro, so I think to some extent the other recorders are addressed, and not just Boss machines.
But then...if I graduate to a bigger Boss, I'll probably be the first one begging Pedro to diversify. And I am sure if Pedro decides to broaden the site, what he has done for the Micro, he can do for the other recorders too.
And a specific thank you to you, 64. Your expertise has been very valuable to me in learning how to use the Micro.
Kevin
Quote from: jkevinwolfe on April 27, 2008, 05:58:45 PMI guess my biggest concern is that there are already a few sites that cover all the BRs. Is another overkill?
I don't think it's overkill. Some people are happy to read several forums on a regular basis to get as much information as they can about their BR. And each forum is unique in the way they're set up and the people who frequent them.
QuoteWhat Pedro has done here is created more than a question and answer board. It's very much a little community that shares ideas, songs and even collaborates. Maybe part of my suggestion of keeping this site pure is out of a sense of protectiveness. I'd hate to see things get too diversified and lose the camaraderie that's here now.
Yes, Pedro has done a wonderful job of creating, maintaining, and improving this site, and I don't want to lose what we have here any more than you do. But I'm sure we have nothing to worry about as long as Pedro is at the helm.
One of the problems with a model-specific site is that the lifetime of the site is about the same as the lifetime of the BR model. I noticed this in the Yahoo model-specific groups. They'd start out with just a few members and a few messages per month. Then the messages would gradually increase over the next year or two as more people bought the BR, until they peaked at maybe one or two hundred messages per month. But eventually the BR gets discontinued and then the number of messages per month fizzles out as people move on to newer recorders and join a different group.
The Micro BR is only a year old now and there's a lot of interest in it to keep this community active. But it will no doubt be discontinued in a few years and what will happen to this site then if it only addresses the Micro BR? Most of you will probably move up to newer recorders. Maybe some future Boss recorder, or maybe a different brand. And there probably won't be enough members left to keep the site going. But, if the site broadens its scope now to include the other BRs and possibly other brands, then adds new recorders as they become available, it can remain active and continue to grow for many years to come. So, maybe the best way to preserve this community is to make sure that it doesn't become obsolete when the Micro BR is eventually discontinued and loses popularity to newer machines. And that can be achieved by adding those new machines as soon as they become available, and covering enough different machines to ensure continuing interest in the site as recorders come and go.
QuotePedro has set up sections that cover other recorders, recording techniques and things that don't necessarily apply to the Micro, so I think to some extent the other recorders are addressed, and not just Boss machines.
Yes. I think Pedro just wants to improve those sections and clarify the site's identity so that users of other recorders will feel welcome. Right now, the site feels very much like an exclusive Micro BR users only club, so the sections for other recorders are not very active.
Currently, the forum is divided into three main sections: "Boss Micro BR", "Other recorders", and "Music & Other". Each of these sections is then further divided into sub-sections. I would suggest changing the name of the "Boss Micro BR" section to "Boss BR recorders". Within that section, I'd keep the existing sub-sections but broaden their scope to inlcude all the BRs, and I'd add three new sub-sections:
- 4-Track BRs - This would include the Micro BR and BR-532. If a new 4-track BR is announced, it would be added here.
- 8-Track BRs (memory card) - This would include the BR-600, BR-864, BR-900CD, and any future BRs that have 8 tracks (or more) and use a memory card for storage rather than a hard disk. It could also include the BR-8, although it uses a zip disk rather than a memory card.
- Hard Disk BRs - The BR-1200, BR-1600, BR-1180 and any future BRs that use a hard disk for storage.
But that's just my suggestion. It's Pedro's site and I won't be offended at all if he decides to do it differently. However he decides to re-organize the forum, I'm sure it will still be great.
Pedro: If that's too many sub-sections (8), you might consider combining all the existing sub-sections (except "Post your work") into a single sub-section called "General BR Discussion", and add the three new ones. Also, you could consider skipping the hard disk BRs section since they are quite different from the other BRs and don't fit the site's name "microrecorders.org" which suggests the smaller, more portable BRs.
QuoteAnd a specific thank you to you, 64. Your expertise has been very valuable to me in learning how to use the Micro.
You're welcome. Glad to help.
This forum already is multi platform isn't it?
I do like the idea of us Micro owners having "our own website" sort of a camaraderie thing. (like the Saturn owners who get together at the Saturn plant in Tennesee once a year)lmao
No Pontiacs allowed even tho they're both GM products-oh wait that plant is closed now-I digresss
It's human nature to resist change, but change for change's sake is not always a good thing.(like new Coke)
Pedro has created a very friendly comfortable forum here-that may possibly be because it is primarily a MBR site.
That being said, I would embrace whatever decision he makes and would still participate.
If it were to happen, we might try making separate boards for the different Br products as suggested.
BTW-sorry for the product placements
Ron
My opinion is that less is more. The <microrecorders.org> url says it all. The forum is so nice and compact as is. Loading in all the other units will greatly decrease its microness. Besides, the other recorder sites are only a click away.
Hello,
I think that as long as the site had clear categories for posting about the different recorders, it would probably be ok. However, this would most likely increase the administrative burden.
I agree with 64 that *sometimes* reading other manuals will provide insight as to how the products work, but this can also lead to confusion, as all of the features between different products may or may not be consistent with the BR.
I applaud Pedro for his willingness to expand the community! He has done a fantastic job with this site, ultimately the final decision is his (as it should be, since he created it in the first place!).
I just hope that it will continue to exist and provide quick, clear and concise information for using the MicroBR recorder, as it is the one that I am most interested in.
Just my two cents ...
Bob
I guess i need to ask
Can a br 600 and up really be considered a "micro" recorder?
when i think of a recorder being micro, i think of a zoom h2/h4 or a MBR.
Once you start making it big enough to accommodate faders at some point it has to be considered an actual DAW. Doesn't it?
Am I just splitting hairs here?
Here's to turds in the punch bowl-lol
ron
My "take" on the question is that, yes, it's very cool to have a Micro-BR dedicated site, but the lifetimes of both will eventually coincide, and the site may "pass" as surely as our now-beloved Micro BR will.
So I think the site should "evolve" along with whatever comes next in the BR world, but always remain "backward compatible", supporting the original Micro BR which, even after a year or more, is STILL catching on and rendering up its secrets.
The MBR is still unique, not yet updated or replaced, and even when it is, the wealth of info here is going to serve THAT new community.
People are going to be asking lots of questions about the original Micro BR for years to come.
The quality of the posts I've read here is also very high, a great credit to the users and to the site admin. My Kudos.
~N~
I think if you put all the different recorders into one basket it is going to make it harder to find the information you need. I think mixing apples and oranges is not a good ideal. I don't think the way you bounce things, the steps you follow to mix things, and a bunch of things not mentioned are different than the other BR's. The other thing is there I would guess many times more BR users than Micro users. There are almost 500 members now. If you triple that I wonder if some of the regulars will get lost because of so many posts. I like logging on and finding out what Oldrottenhead just posted or what Antisocialworker is working on now and all the other regulars posting here. Maybe it will be better but I don't think a bigger site will have the same feel as this site has now. You asked. Thanks, Bryant
Quote from: NeilOnKeys on April 29, 2008, 10:22:50 PMThe MBR is still unique, not yet updated or replaced, and even when it is, the wealth of info here is going to serve THAT new community.
Just as the wealth of information and experience that BR900/600/864/532/8 users have acquired could be serving THIS community.
Quote from: bmaco on April 29, 2008, 11:37:10 PMI think if you put all the different recorders into one basket it is going to make it harder to find the information you need.
I disagree. If you want to learn about v-tracks and bouncing on your Micro BR, you can search for messages about v-tracks and bouncing. It makes no difference whether the message was written about a Micro BR, a BR-600, or a BR-900. The techniques and principals are the same. And the same applies to most other areas of the Micro BR. There is very little that's different from the other BRs. And any differences are usually very minor hardware differences that are easily compensated for when reading messages about the other BRs. For example, the Micro BR has only 4 tracks while most of the others have 8, and you change track levels on the Micro BR by pressing the +/- buttons, while the other BRs have fader controls instead. No big deal. The underlying principals and basic operation are identical.
QuoteI think mixing apples and oranges is not a good ideal.
But they're
not apples and oranges. They are Granny Smiths and McIntoshes. The peeling and coring techniques are identical.
QuoteThe other thing is there I would guess many times more BR users than Micro users. There are almost 500 members now. If you triple that I wonder if some of the regulars will get lost because of so many posts. I like logging on and finding out what Oldrottenhead just posted or what Antisocialworker is working on now and all the other regulars posting here. Maybe it will be better but I don't think a bigger site will have the same feel as this site has now. You asked. Thanks, Bryant
A valid point, but I don't think it will be a problem. In most large groups, the vast majority of members just lurk without ever posting. Or, if they do occasionally post, it's usually a question which will be answered by one of a handful of longtime members. So, the main content of the site still ends up coming from a handful of familiar names.
I don't think we should think of ourselves as Micro BR users, BR-600 users, or BR-864 users. Instead, we should think of ourselves as BR users and be open to sharing our knowledge and ideas with other BR users, regardless of which particular model they happen to use (it makes little difference).
As I said before, I own a BR-864 and it's the only BR I've ever used. Yet, I answer questions about the Micro BR and other models in this group and several others, and people seem to appreciate my advice. Why wouldn't the advice of other BR-864/600/900/532/8 users be equally appreciated by Micro BR users here?
Well, after reading all your posts I still haven't decided but I'm more inclined to leave the forum and the website as it is for now. My main motivation for expanding the forum was the idea that if all the BR's had their forum then people would post more about them. Maybe this idea isn't entirely correct as all in the website (such as the design, domain name, etc...) points to Micro BR and so the website is mainly visited by Micro BR owners in the first way.
As 64Guitars said Micro BR is kind of new and maybe in a year or two it will be obsolete, maybe then this forum would be of no use to anyone. I don't mind, maybe by then, another project, another community based on the common interests of people around here will kick off and achieve the same effect as this.
Thanks a lot for your responses and opinions, my friends.
Pedro,
In a very unscientific survey: asking the guy in the audio department at Guitar Center, I got an "I sold a few" response on the Micro and and "Haven't sold one" response on the 600 or other models. I think the Micro's popularity will always have a bigger potential audience to tap into than the other recorders, which means this site is already serving the largest single base of users of a BR product. That being said, a quick scan of the other BR forums on the Web shows that the "Other" area here has just about as much traffic as these sites do. So I really do think you're already serving all the BR market well as is. And as Guitarron pointed out, the Micro really is the only microrecorder that Boss produces, so this site lives up to it's name as far as Boss products go.
There WILL come a day, whether in a year or five, that Boss will replace the Micro with another recorder. I am assuming that with the success of the Micro it will be the same approximate size, just upgraded and be called the "Micro 2" or "Micro Plus" or something. So I think this site probably has some serious longevity even if you make no changes.
I guess the biggest factor Pedro, would be if you upgrade your recorder and would want to put your efforts into a site for that machine.
You really have done something amazing here and I toast your continued success. I think all of us who have found this site are thankful for it and find it very useful in its current state.
Kevin
I too want to thank you for this wonderful site, I visit it daily and is my main source of all things micro br.
As for adding other products, I would either keep it minimal in their own separate sections, or simply have a links page to other known good sites for the various other models.
I'm surprised that in your informal survey the Micro was the better seller as opposed to the other BR units, or that they don't seem to be that popular.
As a consumer, I did not even know these existed and bought a crappy recorder for an ipod which I was able to sell on ebay. I happened to stumble in some post that mentioned the micro br. And after following that up, It was like finding a pot of gold.
Needless to say that's one of the best purchases I ever made. Aside from this wonderful site, I think it's in everyone's interest to spread the word not just about this site, but about the micro br itself to anyone that will listen.
That is very interesting Kevin.
I did a research and in fact in thomann.de, a major online music retailer in europe the Micro BR is the 36th more sold item, the BR-600 is the 527th, BR-900 is the 1537th, BR-1200 is the 9259th, and BR-1600 is surprisingly, the 2039th. The Zoom H2 is the number 1 sold item and has been since it came out. The Micro BR is by far the most sold recorder from Boss. I wonder what will be the future Ultra Compact Recorder by Boss, it may well be an improved version of Micro BR as you mentioned.
I didn't knew anything about this recorders as well. Small ultra portable recording live in the shadow of the all mighty computer. Most people have a home computer and when they discover that they can turn it into a record workstation with a small price they do it and it works fine for them. I used to record, mostly experiments, on a computer but over time experimenting on a computer, the monitor and the chair become very annoying so I went to research about something more portable and in the end I found the Micro BR. Most musicians I talk to don't even know about these type of digital multitrack recorders, much more Micro BR. They are quite obscure for now. :D