Songcrafters.org

Following SteveG's post regarding the All Stars Blues "IMPROV" course...
I've been thinking if the course would benefit more advanced guitarists ???

Well see for yourself  ;)
we are all doing this test/ execise (irrespective of which lesson we are on and including myself)..I have designed it to explore timing and phrasing using very few notes....see attached plan

Listen to some of the excellent examples here 8)
http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3
Download the backer if you want and have a go (its not as easy as it sounds to keep to so few notes)
You can only use the notes on the chart :D
 if you want your take included in the file email me it to me at
mmacforte@googlemail.com
I am interested in your feedback
Also email me if you fancy joining the All Stars!
All our lessons are over backers so it is fun for anybody who likes the Blues......

Might have a go at this, even though time is very short. Interesting challenge. BTW, I hope you realised you cheated Mike - at one point you slide up the fretboard. That's definitely outside that box  ;)

Cheers,

Nigel

I class it as a slide to nowhere that's how it would be written in tab (a bit like a curl)
that's my excuse anyway  ;D ;D ;D

So slides, bends etc ok but on them notes?

most definitely......... ;)

Ok, will get it done tonight. A hall and stairs to paint, then 3 kids coming for lessons, so no time 'till then. Cheers :)

great idea, i'm gonna have a go!

so any note between the 4th and 9th fret is allowed?or just the dots?

please ignore the above comment...duh

I'm a late enrollee to 48's class, but having a great time catching up.  It's so cool to hear back to back all the different student's range in tone and style

This one was a challenge - I hope I passed    ;)

Can you pass the "All Stars "Test?

A: probably but I don't want to yet  :o I am filling in all the gaps in ability before I turn it in.Right now, I'm a D student working on an A.

This sounds like fun.  :)

I want to try this too! Mike, is there a deadline for entry?

Hmm 

Seem to have trouble downloading the backer. It connects, but nothing is downloading. Guess I'll try again in a bit.

OMG LOok what you have started 48  And you thought you were busy before.  You have to keep us posted. LOL This will be fun.!!

SteveG is the first more advanced player to add his most excellent test to the growing collection listen here: http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3 (http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3)
His comments
"Well, that was interesting, really hard to stay inside that box, kept going for the 6th for some reason............
Good and worthwhile exercise tho, made me think and I did a lot of stuff I would not normally trying to keep it moving without sounding all the same. Enjoyed doing it, cheers."
Steve has joined our happy little gang with the intention of going back to basics to "pimp" his already great Blues Improv............Lets hope the course delivers! ::)
Well Done Steve ;) 8)

Cheers mate, really enjoyed doing this and look forward to getting to grips with the rest of it  ;D If you can get me of my learning plateau and actually practising then you are Mr Motivator indeed!!!

Check for embarrassing typos.......

Press post ........

Just had a listen to yours SteveG  It was great!!

Bugger, I might have to re-take mine now!!!! Is that allowed???
Didn't think there could be many more variations on a theme, especially with just those notes-----------wrong again :o Nice one Steve.
And welcome to the school, not that I think you need it ;D



Oh yeh, just one thing to anyone else doing this------when we did ours none of us heard any of the others first!!!! ;)

StevieM
I force myself to not listen to any other student. I've not listened to you guys since the jazzy post. I know that I'm the worst musician in the class, and possibly the only beginner as well. I got a little wrapped up trying to sound as good as everyone else, that I forgot to practice the basics until I had a solid foundation.

I'm prone to frustration as this instrument does not come naturally to me, so I look up the first completed lesson that I turn in to Mike. I turned in my first lesson on June 22, 2009. It marks the first day I could play a scale. When I put things back into perspective, I'm ready to move forward with a positive attitude.

Unfortunately I promised myself not to listen to the rest of the students until I'm ready.

SteveG, You have a great sense of humor!

Cheers guys, and I do need the practice  ::)

To all my fellow students, I have been doing this for a hell of a long time, but have not progressed in almost as long! What you hear here I was doing years back, I should be way better by now. If you put the hours in, and work through the lessons thoroughly you will be better than me in a matter of months. Hopefully so will I  ;D

Play every day, even if for a short time, rather than one marathon weekly session. That's what I tell my students, and it is about time I started doing the same myself.

Quote from: SteveG on July 31, 2009, 08:59:14 AMPlay every day, even if for a short time, rather than one marathon weekly session. That's what I tell my students, and it is about time I started doing the same myself.

Amen to that Steve.  Play everyday, that is what it is all about, even if only 5-10 minutes, play everyday.  Cheers and keep up the good work guys/gals.

me no understand the tab chart or what's required, lol

I'd better stick to my amateur twiddling... !

I like the marathon approach. I practice at least 2 hours a day 7 days a week.

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 07:19:54 AMStevieM
I force myself to not listen to any other student. I've not listened to you guys since the jazzy post. I know that I'm the worst musician in the class, and possibly the only beginner as well. I got a little wrapped up trying to sound as good as everyone else, that I forgot to practice the basics until I had a solid foundation.

I'm prone to frustration as this instrument does not come naturally to me, so I look up the first completed lesson that I turn in to Mike. I turned in my first lesson on June 22, 2009. It marks the first day I could play a scale. When I put things back into perspective, I'm ready to move forward with a positive attitude.

Unfortunately I promised myself not to listen to the rest of the students until I'm ready.

SteveG, You have a great sense of humor!

Hey Tony, I wasn't even sure what a scale was properly 'till I started this. Had a guitar for a looooooong time, only fiddled about with it from time to time, got absolutely nowhere.
I try not to listen to the others first either, but afterwards------I try to nick, er, get inspiration from, their ideas ;D

Quote from: Greeny on July 31, 2009, 09:12:36 AMme no understand the tab chart or what's required, lol

I'd better stick to my amateur twiddling... !

No Tabs, Tim!!! Just as well, I can't follow those either ;D
Amateur??You????????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA--------HAHAHAHAHA-------HAHAHA

I hate to derail, but what good is a thread without derailing it from time to time.

I don't get tab. I'm pissed that the strings are numbered from small to large. Everything I read is upside down and backwards. I have musical dyslexia.

By the way, thanks StevieM, I was taking comfort in the fact that I was the least polished musician. Now that is gone.... ;D The only thing that stands true now is: I'm the least polished musician LOL

 ;D ;D ;D ;D You guys brighten my day ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 10:38:28 AMI hate to derail, but what good is a thread without derailing it from time to time.

I don't get tab. I'm pissed that the strings are numbered from small to large. Everything I read is upside down and backwards. I have musical dyslexia.

It is not upside down, you are just thinking the wrong way. Lay the neck next to the tab, it is the same orientation. Now pick it up to play .... the low (thick) E is closest to you on both the tab and the guitar. It does make sense that way, just a matter of getting your head round it.

Quote from: SteveG on July 31, 2009, 11:15:54 AM

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 10:38:28 AMI hate to derail, but what good is a thread without derailing it from time to time.

I don't get tab. I'm pissed that the strings are numbered from small to large. Everything I read is upside down and backwards. I have musical dyslexia.

It is not upside down, you are just thinking the wrong way. Lay the neck next to the tab, it is the same orientation. Now pick it up to play .... the low (thick) E is closest to you on both the tab and the guitar. It does make sense that way, just a matter of getting your head round it.

I can't even flip my underwear inside out and get them on right, and you think I can wrap my head around tab? You have way too much faith ;D

I will give that a shot though. The first dozen times I tried playing tab, not realizing the orientation..... what a horrible experience.

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 10:38:28 AMBy the way, thanks StevieM, I was taking comfort in the fact that I was the least polished musician. Now that is gone.... ;D The only thing that stands true now is: I'm the least polished musician LOL

Whoops, sorry Tony, it was meant to make you feel better--not worse :-[.
If, as you say, the guitar doesn't come naturally to you------you're doing pretty damn good!! Keep at it ;)

Hey Steve, I have the same problem as Tony, could never work it out properly, and some of the symbols for slide and stuff? forget it!!
How about someone ;) starting a school to teach tab?? I might be able to get it if I could hear what I'm seeing is supposed to sound like. Does that make any sense at all??

Makes sense to me. I have some TAB for the lead to "Every Rose has its Thorn" I have not tried playing it since I took up 48 all stars. I guess now that I can Stand on my head and read it, I should be able to play it right?

I'll take a lesson or 2

Quote from: SteveG on July 31, 2009, 11:15:54 AM

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 10:38:28 AMI hate to derail, but what good is a thread without derailing it from time to time.

I don't get tab. I'm pissed that the strings are numbered from small to large. Everything I read is upside down and backwards. I have musical dyslexia.

It is not upside down, you are just thinking the wrong way. Lay the neck next to the tab, it is the same orientation. Now pick it up to play .... the low (thick) E is closest to you on both the tab and the guitar. It does make sense that way, just a matter of getting your head round it.

Similarly:
If you are a righty, as youd normally hold the guitar, lay the guitar down on your lap with the strings facing upwards...now lay your book on top of it...thats it. Bottom line of the tab is the "low E" top line is the "high e".
I used to take a pen and fatten up part of that bottom line on my tab paper as a reminder til it became common for me.

Also, many tab books feature a key at the front or back of the book, just make a xerox copy of it and post it up next to where you study...my walls are plastered with cheat sheets likes this ...and the circle of fifths and pentatonics and chords and...

Circle of fifths looks like a Satanic ritual to me. I'd be scared to practice with that on the wall.

If I actually read how silly my posts were today, I'd think I was going on vacation or something..... wait... I'm going on VACATION!

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 12:37:43 PMCircle of fifths looks like a Satanic ritual to me. I'd be scared to practice with that on the wall.

It certainly makes finding the relative minor or major easy to find, makes I, IV, V easy to find too...if its there and you look at it often it will make sense in a short period of time.
I dare you to print this out:

(http://www.charlieburrus.com/MathInMusic/Circle%20of%20Fifths.GIF)

Quote from: Greeny on July 31, 2009, 09:12:36 AMme no understand the tab chart or what's required, lol

I'd better stick to my amateur twiddling... !

Much like my fellow self-taught friend, Tim, I am in the dark on this, 48.  Let me see if I can understand ...

You have a backer (I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark that it's a blues backer ;)), and the challenge is to play a solo using only those notes on the fretboard in which there are dots present?  Is that correct?  What is the significance of the different colors on some of the dots?  Most are white, but one is red and one is black.  Are these frets the 5th through 7th frets on the guitar?

Sorry, I know almost ZERO about music theory.  I'm really shining a spotlight on my amateurish ways with this humiliating post ...  :(

Black dots are ROOT notes, Reds are good for bending, I didn't look but blue dots are good for double stops.

Phrases should typically end on root notes or the phrase doesn't sound complete.

If the first circle is on the 5th fret, the Key is A (minor) hence the black circles are the rest of the A's in the scale.

Challenge accepted Sprocket LOL I'm doing finger alphanumeric math to verify the validity of this insanity.

Right,I'm out of this conversation, I have enough trouble working out which number fret I'm on, let alone anything else :(

Quote from: StevieM on July 31, 2009, 12:18:23 PM

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 10:38:28 AMBy the way, thanks StevieM, I was taking comfort in the fact that I was the least polished musician. Now that is gone.... ;D The only thing that stands true now is: I'm the least polished musician LOL

Whoops, sorry Tony, it was meant to make you feel better--not worse :-[.
If, as you say, the guitar doesn't come naturally to you------you're doing pretty damn good!! Keep at it ;)

This one almost slid past me. those silly last posts on the page, then start another..... Believe me, the only person who can make me feel bad is me. I'm having a blast.

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 10:38:28 AMI don't get tab. I'm pissed that the strings are numbered from small to large. Everything I read is upside down and backwards. I have musical dyslexia.

I get confused by the terms people use to distinguish the two E strings (upper/lower, top/bottom, high/low). Are we talking about pitch or proximity to the floor? Is the "low/bottom" E string the skinny one that's closest to the floor (ie; lower in the vertical dimension) or the fat one that's lower in pitch?

Quote from: 64Guitars on July 31, 2009, 02:27:48 PMI get confused by the terms people use to distinguish the two E strings (upper/lower, top/bottom, high/low). Are we talking about pitch or proximity to the floor? Is the "low/bottom" E string the skinny one that's closest to the floor (ie; lower in the vertical dimension) or the fat one that's lower in pitch?

I always think of pitch, so top or high E is what I also refer to as the first string. ;)

Quote from: cuthbert on July 31, 2009, 02:33:50 PMI always think of pitch, so top or high E is what I also refer to as the first string. ;)

Ah! Okay, I've got it now. The top string is the one at the bottom.  ;)

I can accept the string numbers more easily (1st string being the skinny E and 6th string being the fat E) because all of the string manufacturers seem to agree on that. Their string packages usually list the six string numbers and their corresponding gauges and the skinniest string is always string #1. But this top/bottom, high/low stuff is too easily misinterpreted.

Quote from: 64Guitars on July 31, 2009, 03:00:08 PMAh! Okay, I've got it now. The top string is the one at the bottom.  ;)

And if you were playing the guitar lying down on a bed as I frequently do, then top string would indeed be top string.  :D

Quote from: 64Guitars on July 31, 2009, 03:00:08 PM

Quote from: cuthbert on July 31, 2009, 02:33:50 PMI always think of pitch, so top or high E is what I also refer to as the first string. ;)

Ah! Okay, I've got it now. The top string is the one at the bottom. 

Unless, of course, you play like Hendrix, a right hand guitar lefthanded, so the bottom is the top and the top is the bottom.
And while we're at it, why are they called left and right handed? You play with both hands, so who first said which was which?  Maybe most of us actually play left handed????? ;D

Quote from: Tony W on July 31, 2009, 01:42:19 PMBlack dots are ROOT notes, Reds are good for bending, I didn't look but blue dots are good for double stops.

Phrases should typically end on root notes or the phrase doesn't sound complete.

If the first circle is on the 5th fret, the Key is A (minor) hence the black circles are the rest of the A's in the scale.

English, please? ;D

You can only use those 7 notes, forget the colours!!! It's up to you if they sound right, or not!
Good luck!! (  and yep, it's a blues backer ;D)

Quote from: StevieM on July 31, 2009, 03:28:15 PMYou can only use those 7 notes, forget the colours!!! It's up to you if they sound right, or not!
Good luck!! (  and yep, it's a blues backer ;D)

Thanks, Stevie, for clearing that up!

Quote from: Bosko Schwartz on July 31, 2009, 01:06:18 PMYou have a backer (I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark that it's a blues backer ;)), and the challenge is to play a solo using only those notes on the fretboard in which there are dots present?  Is that correct?  What is the significance of the different colors on some of the dots?  Most are white, but one is red and one is black.  Are these frets the 5th through 7th frets on the guitar?

Sorry, I know almost ZERO about music theory.  I'm really shining a spotlight on my amateurish ways with this humiliating post ...  :(

48's course has very little to do with theory, nor does that fretboard map....it shows part of the Am pentatonic scale. The black note is an A, which is the root note, as the chord progression is in the key of A. The red one is a D.
The progression is a 12 bar, I, IV V .... in this case A, D, E. You dont need to know what that means, just hear the changes and follow them, it is called playing over the changes, as you stay on the same scale pattern all the time. If you hit the A note while playing over the A chord it will sound strong, same for the D over the D chord. As mentioned, the D is good for bending a full tone up to E, the other chord.
All you have to do is play them marked notes, on the 6th and 7th frets. None of them will sound bad, but how good they sound will depend where you use them, and how, which is the point of this mose excelent exercise, impro with a limited note choice to make you work harder. Try it, it is fum :)

Quote from: 64Guitars on July 31, 2009, 02:27:48 PMI get confused by the terms people use to distinguish the two E strings (upper/lower, top/bottom, high/low). Are we talking about pitch or proximity to the floor? Is the "low/bottom" E string the skinny one that's closest to the floor (ie; lower in the vertical dimension) or the fat one that's lower in pitch?

It is always pitch ... the thickest string is lower in pitch so is the low string, in the same way up the neck is towards the body - higher pitch, while down the neck is towards the head- lower pitch.

Quote from: SteveG on July 31, 2009, 04:00:27 PM48's course has very little to do with theory, nor does that fretboard map....it shows part of the Am pentatonic scale. The black note is an A, which is the root note, as the chord progression is in the key of A. The red one is a D.
The progression is a 12 bar, I, IV V .... in this case A, D, E.

Wow, if that's not theory, I'm in trouble.  I guess I knew even LESS than I thought.  WTF is a pentatonic scale?  Never mind, please don't answer that question.  I bet I don't even want to know.  But you're telling me that a pentatonic scale has nothing to do with music theory?  Baffled.  I am baffled if that is not music theory.

Also, I never understood this business of a song being in the "key" of a specific note, either.  I have no f-ing idea what key my songs are in.  Is it just about the first chord that is played in the song?  I mean, there are a ton of different chords played in most songs -- or at least three -- so how do you know which of these chords constitutes the key that it is in?  I'm absolutely clueless about this.  I know a capo takes what you're playing and makes it a higher key for obvious reasons ... that's about it.

I should try this exercise to see if someone who plays strictly by ear can do anything worth a shit.

Really mate, no theory  ;D
The dots show you where to put your fingers
The key in any blues is the first chord
That's all you need to know.....

Bosko, stop talking about it, just bloody go for it! If it sounds right-- it's right, if it don't---it's not. Simple!!
You'll probably wipe the floor with all of us  ;)

Quote from: SteveG on July 31, 2009, 04:57:46 PMReally mate, no theory  ;D
The dots show you where to put your fingers
The key in any blues is the first chord
That's all you need to know.....

I got that!

Ah, the first chord makes the key!  That's what I suspected, but had no idea if that was true.  Is this only in blues?

What the hell is music theory if a pentatonic scale has nothing to do with theory?

Quote from: StevieM on July 31, 2009, 05:07:25 PMBosko, stop talking about it, just bloody go for it! If it sounds right-- it's right, if it don't---it's not. Simple!!

Yeah, that's why I'm self-taught.  I don't care why something sounds good, I just care that it sounds good! ;D

Quote from: StevieM on July 31, 2009, 05:07:25 PMYou'll probably wipe the floor with all of us  ;)

Hilarious, sir.  Quite hilarious. :D :D :D

Quote from: Bosko Schwartz on July 31, 2009, 05:14:01 PMI got that!

Ah, the first chord makes the key!  That's what I suspected, but had no idea if that was true.  Is this only in blues?

What the hell is music theory if a pentatonic scale has nothing to do with theory?

Don't get me wrong, theory will allow you to derive the minor pentatonic scale from the minor scale, there is a lot to it, but you don't NEED to know any of that to play blues, just memorise the scale patterns and then mess around with them, if is sounds cool, do it again. If not, try something else. Easy as that. No note in the pattern will sound "out", though they sound different depending where you play them, its all down to your ear. Just go for it and listen :)

As for first chord being the key, it is almost always that way in the blues, ignoring any intro, and often works for other styles too .. but not always. Ask a group of musos what key Sweet Home Alabama is in......

Quote from: Bosko Schwartz on July 31, 2009, 05:15:56 PM

Quote from: StevieM on July 31, 2009, 05:07:25 PMBosko, stop talking about it, just bloody go for it! If it sounds right-- it's right, if it don't---it's not. Simple!!

Yeah, that's why I'm self-taught.  I don't care why something sounds good, I just care that it sounds good! ;D

Quote from: StevieM on July 31, 2009, 05:07:25 PMYou'll probably wipe the floor with all of us  ;)

Hilarious, sir.  Quite hilarious. :D :D :D

Have at it good sir Boscko.  With your uncanny rhythmic talents, your perfect timing (I am not being facetious here, I really mean it, you got the stuff man), just take those 7 notes that Mike has laid down as the challenge, and go man go. I bet it would sound really good.  Lets hear it Boscko.  I have played around with this tonight and it is tricky not to stray from this little box, damn tricky.  Great exercise Mike.

Bosko, This proves a point more so than anything I've ever seen. I want to know the who what where when and why. I study theory probably more than I play. I also struggle to make anything sound right, while you blow me away with every single piece that you post.

I'm going to quit thinking about it and just friggin do it!

SteveG good posts, I picked up on a few things that I didn't put together previously.

Quote from: Tony W on August 01, 2009, 12:15:10 PMBosko, This proves a point more so than anything I've ever seen. I want to know the who what where when and why. I study theory probably more than I play. I also struggle to make anything sound right, while you blow me away with every single piece that you post.

I'm going to quit thinking about it and just friggin do it!

SteveG good posts, I picked up on a few things that I didn't put together previously.

Wow, thanks, TonyW!!! ;D

Let me clarify that I actually wouldn't mind knowing the why, it's just that I'm too lazy to put in the time to find out. ;D  I'm just a self-taught/play-by-ear kind of musician and I guess I'm comfortable with that.  At the same time, I sometimes get jealous of those who are schooled, read music, and know a lot about theory.  One day maybe I will learn some of this stuff.  A lot of it I probably already sort of know, but it would be cool to learn it "officially."

That's the way it goes. I never set out to learn any theory, self taught play by ear same as you, but it sort of seeps in after a while then suddenly you go "Oh yeah  ...  I see" and it makes sense. Does help too.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me could start a theory workshop?

Well I have been out for 24 hours and I see this has turned into a healthy discussion... ;D
I would like to clarify what I am trying to do ???
I started playing the guitar seriously about 2 and a half years ago and had to decide what I wanted to learn it took me about 5 seconds to come to the conclusion that I wanted to learn Blues Soloing so I went thro all the normal stuff of trying to learn patterns scales theory etc and because I only ever wanted to play for my own amusement...I spent nearly a year going thro lots of lesson styles and learning famous licks and I was getting nowhere I didn't want to spend ages learning a "cover" only to forget it...Then the penny dropped when I found a blues backer in A and I knew the Am Blues scale started playing and it instantly felt good...so good I am still doing it!
It encouraged me to learn all sorts of things because I now had the confidence to play......

I am in no way professing to be a proper guitar Teacher (whatever that means) all I am trying to do is share the method that helped me learn and give players a different way of learning that is fun all the way!

So I use very little Tab or theory just enough to hopefully make sense
For instance there are a lot of players that have heard the term "Pentatonic scale" or even some who play it and don't realise that its only 5 notes and those + the blue note form the basis of all that great blues music........
That's really the only theory you need......To Improvise the Blues.
the rest is all about the why's and how's.....

In the end its all down to what you want and need on your musical journey
I would rather play than learn theory and if I improve that's great and if I absorb theory on the way that's cool too!

My challenge and that of the course, is exploring those 6 notes and the million ways of phrasing and expressing them.........
And that challenge fires me up every day....... 8) :D

SteveG thanks for explaining the little lick box I realise it make be a little confusing taken out of context.

Boscko if you can find a little time each day sign up and you never know it might be enjoyable.......... ;)

Quote from: StevieM on July 31, 2009, 05:07:25 PMBosko, stop talking about it, just bloody go for it! If it sounds right-- it's right, if it don't---it's not. Simple!!
You'll probably wipe the floor with all of us  ;)

If it sounds right-- it's right, if it don't---it's prog. Simple ... YOU can't fail Bosko, my prog-pop hero!!

BTW great challenge 48 !! And a hillaious thread !!!!

Yeah, go for it Bosko. Nothing to lose, everything to gain :) So far I have zoomed through the first couple of lessons, I know this stuff already after all, but I have learned much more from them than I expected to. 48 puts things in a simple, logical sequence .... no theory to worry about, just play like he says and shows you and you are away!

Quote from: Greeny on July 31, 2009, 09:12:36 AMme no understand the tab chart or what's required, lol

I'd better stick to my amateur twiddling... !

this reminds of the old joke drummers like to come back with
How do you get a guitarist to play quiet?
Put a chart in front of him

 ;D ;D ;D You guys are so funny!!  ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: guitarron on August 02, 2009, 10:44:23 AM

Quote from: Greeny on July 31, 2009, 09:12:36 AMme no understand the tab chart or what's required, lol

I'd better stick to my amateur twiddling... !

this reminds of the old joke drummers like to come back
How do you get a guitarist to play quiet?
Put a chart in front of him

;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: guitarron on August 02, 2009, 10:44:23 AM

Quote from: Greeny on July 31, 2009, 09:12:36 AMme no understand the tab chart or what's required, lol

I'd better stick to my amateur twiddling... !

this reminds of the old joke drummers like to come back with
How do you get a guitarist to play quiet?
Put a chart in front of him

What do you call a guy that hangs out with a bunch of Musicians ???

The Drummer ;)

I was going to bed, but...

The singer walks into the dressing room just before the gig to find the guitarist and bassist arguing..

"What the hell now?", he asks

"He's detuned one of my strings", yells the angry bassist"

"Well, retune it quick man, we have a gig to play", Says the singer.

"I would", replies the bassist, "But he wont tell me which one"

 ;D ;D ;D

Here is our very own Geir's Test 8)
I think he's slipped a few extra notes in ;D
Only joking you rock Geir! 8)
http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3
His comments
It's a good thing you've got going here !!!
Any more for the "Test" ;)
Or for that matter fancy taking our course? ;)

Quote from: 48 on August 03, 2009, 06:53:06 AMHere is our very own Geir's Test 8)
I think he's slipped a few extra notes in ;D
Only joking you rock Geir! 8)
http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3
His comments
It's a good thing you've got going here !!!
Any more for the "Test" ;)
Or for that matter fancy taking our course? ;)

Damn that Geir is one cool guitar player hu?  I am going to giver this a try today Mike, I'll E-mail it to you when done.  Great test to pick such a small box and try to do a whole backer with just those notes.  I have done this for practice before with small boxes like this.  I usually pick boxes up on the higher strings, so this is a cool challenge with these low down and dirty strings, lots of double-stop potential here with this combo.

I'm for the test, 48!  I'll try to get it down and in the email today.

I'm not much of a blues player, although I learned a bit of the form when first learning guitar. At the very least, my entry may serve as an example of how not to play the blooze!  :D

Can blue men play the whites?  ;)

cuth

Quote from: cuthbert on August 03, 2009, 08:23:48 AMI'm for the test, 48!  I'll try to get it down and in the email today.
I'm not much of a blues player, although I learned a bit of the form when first learning guitar. At the very least, my entry may serve as an example of how not to play the blooze!  :D
Can blue men play the whites?  ;)
cuth

Excellent Well Cuth if you enjoy it sign up for a refresher! ;)

Another BR legend has just passed the test.......
Listen Bluesberry here! 8)
http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3 (http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3)
We have now got 10 BR users on the test ...How cool is that! 8)

Great stuff guys. It's amazing there are so many different ways to play just 7 notes, and there's probably more to come ;D.

I am truly amazed also.  I need to take an hour and sit and listen to all the takes.  Everyone is different. This is really turning into a fun test.  I think we should do more! Although at first I didn't think so.  And Hey where's Bosko's test.  Did he give up on this challenge?     Geir and Blues it was great to hear your takes. WOW

....and yet another excellent test. 8)
Here's cuthbert aka Joe's take and he has added a touch of originality by adding harmonics........
hear it here
http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3 (http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3)
He has also signed up for the course.... Way to go cuthbert :D

Quite the crew you have now, 48!! I have been listening to the takes and they all sound great - Excellent job everybody.

Mark

P.S. - I like how the player on box.net automatically rotates through the song files.

One question, 48: Do you have to do this in one take to pass the test, or just make sure you stay within those notes?  I am pretty bad at any improvisation, let alone blues!

Bosko just have a few goes to get used to the notes, try and make a few licks
and then press the red button ;)
To be fair this is at the end of lesson 2 so the guys have had a couple of lessons
If you want send me your mailing addy and have a go at lesson 1 first ;)

Cool, just making sure it didn't HAVE to be one take!  Maybe I'll check out lesson two later, but I want to try this first! ;D

Go for it, Bosko...if I can play within the box, anyone can!  :D

Well, Mike, you and everyone else somehow talked me into it. :o  I never thought I'd do this, but I just e-mailed it to you.  It's pretty embarrassing, but I tried.  Go easy on me, as this is the first time I have ever played blues in my entire life!  This was the 4th or 5th take.  The last measure is pretty sad, as I was running out of "licks" from my already pretty much completely empty Lick Bag.  What I can say with absolute certainty was that I stuck to those 7 notes -- and, boy, was that difficult!

What's also weird is that I found myself playing the rhythm and the lead a lot.  Just couldn't help myself from playing that little riff.  Hopefully that's not cheating! :D

Thanks, Mike, for letting me participate in a very fun and interesting challenge! ;D

Quote from: 48 on August 03, 2009, 06:53:06 AMI think he's slipped a few extra notes in ;D
Only joking you rock Geir! 8)

Well I might have bent the rules a bit, but only by bending the strings ;D

And it IS a good thing you've got going here !!!

Bosko, I have to admit you are entertaining the hell out of me in this thread. I am way too self-conscious to be as open as you. Truth be told, I have come a long way in a very very short amount of time due to Mike's ability to mentor, and the level of patience he has. Continuing to be honest, I'm still a poor musician, but there is light at the end of the tunnel now.

I have been working on this test for a week and a half, I have sent a few takes to Mike, and asking for guidance. The flaws that I need to work on are exposed, and I'm diligent about fixing them. I've actually taken 3 steps back to make a step forward at this point. I'll definitely be much more refined as a result, so I'm happy.

Glad to hear I am entertaining you, Tony W! ;D

I'd love to hear your version(s) and would like you to hear mine as well, after Mike posts it.  I am sure yours will blow mine away, as I have absolutely NO BUSINESS playing the blues.

I guess this was also my answer to PJ's challenge of doing something "outside the box."  As anyone would know who has listened to my stuff or read my posts on various threads, blues is about as far outside my little box as I can possibly get.  Well, maybe new-school country or hip-hop would be even further outside, but I digress.  I find that odd, in a way, as blues seems to be the first choice for many of the fine musicians here.

Anyway, I had fun doing it, and it was certainly a CHALLENGE (not to mention a good exercise to thicken the calluses on the fingers of my left hand)! ;D

Bosko I have not recieved your mail yet  ;)

Quote from: 48 on August 05, 2009, 10:09:49 AMBosko I have not recieved your mail yet  ;)

Darn, I was hoping you would have heard it by now.  I must have the e-mail address wrong.  What is it?  You put it as mmacforte@googlemail.com in the first post.

I am confused ... ???

Quote from: Bosko Schwartz on August 05, 2009, 11:02:09 AM

Quote from: 48 on August 05, 2009, 10:09:49 AMBosko I have not recieved your mail yet  ;)

darn, I was hoping you would have heard it by now.  I must have the e-mail address wrong.  What is it?  You put it as mmacforte@googlemail.com in the first post.
I am confused ... ???

thats the right address....... Very Strange ??? :o

I sent it again, Mike -- did you get it this time?

Quote from: Bosko Schwartz on August 04, 2009, 06:43:18 AMOne question, 48: Do you have to do this in one take to pass the test, or just make sure you stay within those notes?  I am pretty bad at any improvisation, let alone blues!

My arse! ;D ;D
You are having a laugh at us  ;) :D 8)
here's is Boskos splendid dirty test
http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3 (http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3)

Man I really love the repeated notes towards the end...sounds so awesome.
I always feel like I need to be moving or doing something different.
Its when I hear somebody like you, whos confident in his playing that I realize whats missing with my own.

Well done, Bosko!

Quote from: 48 on August 05, 2009, 01:14:48 PMMy arse! ;D ;D
You are having a laugh at us  ;) :D 8)
here's is Boskos splendid dirty test
http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3 (http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3)

I am totally not!

Quote from: Sprocket on August 05, 2009, 01:26:07 PMMan I really love the repeated notes towards the end...sounds so awesome.
I always feel like I need to be moving or doing something different.
Its when I hear somebody like you, whos confident in his playing that I realize whats missing with my own.

I think it's you who are laughing at me.  You can't be serious!  Either that, or you're just being super-nice so as not to hurt my feelings! ;D

[quote author=Bosko Schwartz link=topic=3829.msg43113#msg43113
I think it's you who are laughing at me.  You can't be serious!  Either that, or you're just being super-nice so as not to hurt my feelings! ;D
[/quote]

If you get a chuckle out of someone deriving a stew recipe out of your lyrics, I don't see how your feelings could get hurt :D

I think you did a great job - cleverly placed notes and great timing. Bravo!!

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet!

Mark

That was pretty impressive work there Bosko "Blues Man" Schwartz!

For having "never done improv" you did really good. Good flow and feeling. Which is the most important thing here considering that the test is purposely boxed into such a small note selection.

You'll be playing some SRV in no time!!!  ;)

Quote from: launched on August 05, 2009, 04:14:20 PMI think you did a great job - cleverly placed notes and great timing. Bravo!!

It was the excellent timing that makes this sound so good Boscko.  Timing is the essential ingredient.  You can play really fancy notes, know your way around the fretboard like nobodies buisness, but if your timing is off it sounds off, kinda crapy.  Or you can play very simply, only a few notes, but if your timing is excellent, it sounds really, really excellent.  This is the secret to why those old blues guys sounded so good, very few notes, but god-given timing.  Boscko, your timing is perfect really, just as I knew it would be, and while you are only playing a few notes, and going back and forth with it, what people are responding to here is your timing, I believe it is what Sprocket is referring to as your "confidence".  To you Boscko, you don't see what all the fuss is about, so simple what you played, but it is your incredible timing that pushes your take over the top.  Of all the aspects of music, timing is the most elusive, the hardest to teach, and also the most important to making music sound good.  This exercise of yours Boscko has turned into a demonstration of what perfect timing can do for your playing, and why it so important to strive for timing.  I had a feeling your take would have really great timing Boscko.  So nobody is laughing at anybody here.  You thought your playing was very primitive and simple (which it is  ;)), but because of your incredible gift for perfect timing (you are a drummer after all) it comes out sounding really good, polished, confident, like you have been playing this kind of stuff for a while.  Excellent job Boscko, excellent lesson in timing also.  8)

Quote from: Saijinn Maas on August 05, 2009, 04:32:40 PMThat was pretty impressive work there Bosko "Blues Man" Schwartz!

For having "never done improv" you did really good. Good flow and feeling. Which is the most important thing here considering that the test is purposely boxed into such a small note selection.

You'll be playing some SRV in no time!!!  ;)

Wow, thanks, Saijinn!  I can't agree, but I thank you for the kind words! ;D

Quote from: Bluesberry on August 05, 2009, 04:32:52 PM

Quote from: launched on August 05, 2009, 04:14:20 PMI think you did a great job - cleverly placed notes and great timing. Bravo!!

It was the excellent timing that makes this sound so good Boscko.  Timing is the essential ingredient.  You can play really fancy notes, know your way around the fretboard like nobodies buisness, but if your timing is off it sounds off, kinda crapy.  Or you can play very simply, only a few notes, but if your timing is excellent, it sounds really, really excellent.  This is the secret to why those old blues guys sounded so good, very few notes, but god-given timing.  Boscko, your timing is perfect really, just as I knew it would be, and while you are only playing a few notes, and going back and forth with it, what people are responding to here is your timing, I believe it is what Sprocket is referring to as your "confidence".  To you Boscko, you don't see what all the fuss is about, so simple what you played, but it is your incredible timing that pushes your take over the top.  Of all the aspects of music, timing is the most elusive, the hardest to teach, and also the most important to making music sound good.  This exercise of yours Boscko has turned into a demonstration of what perfect timing can do for your playing, and why it so important to strive for timing.  I had a feeling your take would have really great timing Boscko.  So nobody is laughing at anybody here.  You thought your playing was very primitive and simple (which it is  ;)), but because of your incredible gift for perfect timing (you are a drummer after all) it comes out sounding really good, polished, confident, like you have been playing this kind of stuff for a while.  Excellent job Boscko, excellent lesson in timing also.  8)

Wow, THANK YOU, BB! ;D  I actually thought my timing was weak in spots, but I guess that's the perfectionist in me coming out.  Maybe you're right about timing being the secret, and maybe my drumming BG helps.  Something to think about, for sure.  All of that said, I still say my take stank! ;D

By the way, BB, yours blew me the F away! How did you hit those dual notes in the beginning?  I was trying to hit two notes at a time and couldn't seem to find two that went together.  Which were the two notes you kept hitting?  Yours was so good, it sounded like you were cheating regularly ... but I KNOW you wouldn't do that.  RIGHT? ;)

I also think Mike's take was incredibly smooth and tasteful and melodic.  Sounded like a 50-year pro.  But what else would we expect from The Master? ;D ;D ;D

No cheating from me Boscko, I just laid my fingers down and played  :D.  It was one take, no double tracking or punching in, hit record and go.  I'll tell you what I did, the box that Mike identified here lends itself very well to those kind of double stops, so I lay my first finger down across all strings, and pretty much leave it there, then using my middle and ring finger lay them down and lift off in various patterns, the first finger stays put, and I strike two strings at a time.  Noodling around like this, it is pretty easy to make really cool double stop sounds in this way, once you get the hang of it (the secret is in leaving that first finger planted most of the time straight across the neck on the first row of notes in the box.  Thanks for the nice comment about my Playing.  I agree that Mike plays very smooth, I love his style!

I'm impressed!!

Quote from: Bluesberry on August 11, 2009, 06:14:00 PMNo cheating from me Boscko, I just laid my fingers down and played  :D.  It was one take, no double tracking or punching in, hit record and go.  I'll tell you what I did, the box that Mike identified here lends itself very well to those kind of double stops, so I lay my first finger down across all strings, and pretty much leave it there, then using my middle and ring finger lay them down and lift off in various patterns, the first finger stays put, and I strike two strings at a time.  Noodling around like this, it is pretty easy to make really cool double stop sounds in this way, once you get the hang of it (the secret is in leaving that first finger planted most of the time straight across the neck on the first row of notes in the box.  Thanks for the nice comment about my Playing.  I agree that Mike plays very smooth, I love his style!

That is a pretty good tip. I have been working the fretboard with my index finger as much as I have with the ring finger. I'm going to barre the fret and see what happens. I throw in a token double stop on occasion, but its difficult to get my fingers in position, and it always sounds forced.

QuoteOf all the aspects of music, timing is the most elusive, the hardest to teach, and also the most important to making music sound good.

That is so true BB !! When I've been teaching my kids to play, I've always said that! I doesn't help much if you hit all the right notes and chords when singing a song if you can't keep the beat. Very few will discover a wrong chord but everyone notices if you stop to think what chord to play (to put it to the extreme).

I don't know if you guys have noticed, but I don't have a post in the all-star test yet. Reason being... TIMING. It is the bane of my existence right now. I'm frustrated beyond belief.

Quote from: Tony W on August 12, 2009, 06:55:38 AMI don't know if you guys have noticed, but I don't have a post in the all-star test yet. Reason being... TIMING. It is the bane of my existence right now. I'm frustrated beyond belief.

Just a couple of possible things to help that worked for me

Try adjusting your guitar's input volume to be just at, or very slightly over the backer's volume.  This should allow you to "feel" the grove better and get you with the track, not recording "over it". 

I also found either closing my eyes or looking away from my left hand allowed me to focus on the music and not the notes.

Quote from: Tony W on August 12, 2009, 06:55:38 AMI don't know if you guys have noticed, but I don't have a post in the all-star test yet. Reason being... TIMING. It is the bane of my existence right now. I'm frustrated beyond belief.

Tap your foot, or move part of your body in time with the music, click your teeth, whatever. Point being get into the rhythm. All the classical trained guys (if any) will flame me for that......

Just get into the groove man, timing will come!

Quote from: Tony W on August 12, 2009, 06:55:38 AMI don't know if you guys have noticed, but I don't have a post in the all-star test yet. Reason being... TIMING. It is the bane of my existence right now. I'm frustrated beyond belief.

Don't think about it, I'm listening to your all-star blues now, and you've got what it takes to pull this one off too!!! And Justin's and Steve's advice is good advice!! Now get that foot tapping and hit record ;D

Thanks for the advice Steve, Gier, and Justin.

With the bad comes the good. While I'm painfully stuck with timing issues, I have been developing some really decent expression techniques. I consider that a decent trade off. I used to get frustrated with this kind of thing, but now I don't see this as a plateau, I see myself progressing in a different direction.

I've really tried foot tapping, head bobbing, etc, and wind up with the same results as to when I try to sing. My hands stop moving when another body part engages. I often feel like a freak of nature.

I'm about to start playing while riding an exercise bike. If I don't get timing down, at least I can get my weight down ;D

Mike has narrowed my timing issues down to me following the Bass or the Melody sometimes both at the same time, I'm not following the drums. I have hearing loss, and really struggle to hear the drums. I did try turning the input down to where I can barely hear the guitar. I'll keep at it. Sooner or later I'll find what works.

 

Tony,

Maybe something like this:

(http://www.bodybeat.net/images/content/bb_header1.jpg)

http://www.bodybeat.net/ (http://www.bodybeat.net/)

dude, that is brilliant! I would have never thought to research something like this. I have a feeling a trip to Guitar Center is coming up soon. I'm going to do an onslaught of research on it.

Quote from: Justin_Case on August 12, 2009, 04:19:00 PMTony,

Maybe something like this:

(http://www.bodybeat.net/images/content/bb_header1.jpg)

http://www.bodybeat.net/ (http://www.bodybeat.net/)

perfect for drummers-no joke intended

Quote from: Bluesberry on August 11, 2009, 06:14:00 PMNo cheating from me Boscko, I just laid my fingers down and played  :D.  It was one take, no double tracking or punching in, hit record and go.

That's 'cuz you're just that badass, BB.  You're untouchable! ;D

PS: I don't even know what the shit a "double stop" is ...

You're killing me Bosko :o

I didn't know what a "double stop" was either.   ???

I just looked it up. Turns out I've been playing them for years.  :D

Quote from: cuthbert on August 17, 2009, 02:16:37 PMI didn't know what a "double stop" was either.   ???

I just looked it up. Turns out I've been playing them for years.  :D

I'm looking forward to the day that I play them on purpose :D

Hi,

I have been searching around for the backing track for this?

Anyone have a link?

Thanks,

Bob

Here you go Bob ;)
http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3 (http://www.box.net/shared/7mnhv359v3)

48,

Thanks for the link.  So, I just import ino my recorder of choice, then post the MP3?  Or is there a more formal "sign-up"?

Thanks,

Bob

Quote from: robsmith on March 18, 2010, 09:51:37 AM48,

Thanks for the link.  So, I just import ino my recorder of choice, then post the MP3?  Or is there a more formal "sign-up"?

Thanks,

Bob

Bob
Just post it up here and I will add to the collection
If you fancy some more Info on the Blues All Stars Improv course mail me
mmacforte@gmail.com