Songcrafters.org

Update - 2022-09-26 - Now there's a little brother to the R20 - the new R12. See https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?msg=391789 (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?msg=391789)

I don't think it's been officially released yet, but news has leaked of a new multitrack recorder from Zoom.

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r20/ (https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r20/)

https://ir.zoom.co.jp/news/auto_20211108427703/pdfFile.pdf (https://ir.zoom.co.jp/news/auto_20211108427703/pdfFile.pdf)

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=zoom+r20&ia=web (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=zoom+r20&ia=web)

Quick Tour manual: https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R20_QuickTour.pdf (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R20_QuickTour.pdf)

Owner's Manual: https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R20.pdf (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R20.pdf)

Guitar Lab software Reference Manual: https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_GuitarLab_v7.0.pdf (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_GuitarLab_v7.0.pdf)

Features:

• 16-Tracks Recorder with pro-quality 8-channel Fader Mixer and onboard 4.3-inch, full-colour Touchscreen LCD
• Faders and controls are colour-coded to match screen clips
• Onboard 8-voice FM music synthesizer for creating backing tracks
• USB-C connection and MIDI Host function for instant connection of MIDI Keyboards
• Built-in Multi-Effects Processor - compatible with Zoom GuitarLab software
• Wireless Bluetooth control (via optional BTA-1) with R20 App for iOS supporting Accessibility
• Direct recording to SDHC / SDXC cards up to 1TB
• Equipped with 6 XLR mic inputs and 2 XLR / TRS combo jacks
• 48V phantom power ON / OFF switch (INPUT 5-6 / INPUT 7-8)
• Hi-Z input switch (INPUT1) that can be directly connected to a guitar / bass
• 150 types of rhythm loops that allow you to build rhythm tracks by dragging and dropping
• 3-band EQ and PAN can be set for each track, and compressor / limiter / noise gate can be set for 8 tracks (TRACK 1-8 or TRACK 9-16) at the same time
• USB audio interface function for PC / Mac / iPhone / iPad (PC / Mac: 8 in 4 out, iPhone / iPad *: 2 in 2 out)
• WAV / SMF data can be read and project backups can be saved via an external USB memory
• DAW software for PC / Mac, Steinberg Cubase LE download license included

2021-12-11: Pre-order pricing advertised as $399.99 USD or £349 GBP.










https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY2eFe1z93Q

More R20 videos from Zoom can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwqM3vvQSt5MDdGYYXCtg-2c73lbynv9v (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwqM3vvQSt5MDdGYYXCtg-2c73lbynv9v)

That looks REALLY cool.
Never been a big fan of ZOOM stuff, but that does look cool.

The only downside for me is in one of the really cool bits: I HATE touchscreens!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's not their fault, I just can't get on with them.

I love how they've made it look like a multi-track cassette recorder!

This looks amazing, and I'm glad Zoom are still even considering standalone recording units / portable studios. It could easily tempt me away from the MBR as I'm still very reluctant to go down a completely DAW route.

Quote from: AndyR on November 18, 2021, 12:41:27 AMThe only downside for me is in one of the really cool bits: I HATE touchscreens!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's not their fault, I just can't get on with them.

I'm the same. I have a hard time getting a touchscreen interface to do what I want and not do something catastrophic instead. Simple icon clicks are okay, but scrolling is a big problem for me. I always end up triggering some other function that I didn't want, then I have to figure out how to get back to the screen I was trying to scroll and try again, often with the same result.

On the other hand, the touchscreen gives you a full keyboard for typing in project names, filenames, etc. That's a lot more convenient than a BR, for example, where you laboriously enter each character by scrolling through the entire alphabet, uppercase and lowercase plus digits and other characters.



I would imagine that, in time, you'd get used to the touchscreen interface and it would become less frustrating.

Quote from: Greeny on November 18, 2021, 01:55:40 AMThis looks amazing, and I'm glad Zoom are still even considering standalone recording units / portable studios. It could easily tempt me away from the MBR as I'm still very reluctant to go down a completely DAW route.

I'm tempted too. Although, to be honest, I think it's just my excitement at finally seeing the introduction of a new multitrack recorder. It's been years since anyone offered anything new and I thought it might be the end of standalone multitrack recorders. I'm glad that Zoom has proved me wrong. I hope the R20 is a very successful product for them. Maybe it will inspire Boss and other manufacturers to jump on the bandwagon and create some new multitrack recorders.

Nowadays, I tend to use my BR-864 only for capturing a few raw tracks. Then I copy those tracks to the computer and do all my editing and processing in a DAW. So I don't really need a lot of editing features in the recorder, just basic recording and some good guitar effects.

Mind you, the R20 could make that process a bit easier since it writes directly to WAV files (no conversion of tracks is needed). And, as I understand it, you can plug a USB flash drive into the R20's USB-C port and copy your tracks directly to it as WAV files. I could then take that USB flash drive to my computer and quickly and easily import the tracks into a DAW. So, if the price of the R20 proves to be irresistible, I just might decide to get one. If nothing else, it would be a lot of fun to play with and learn about.

Here's a review from someone in Japan who bought one a few days ago. So I guess it's officially released in Japan, but there's no sign of it on other Zoom sites. We'll have to wait.

https://jyo--ji-com.translate.goog/entry/20211115?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui (https://jyo--ji-com.translate.goog/entry/20211115?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui)

Interesting that no SD card is included. And no USB cable either. Also, there's no built-in microphone. You have to use external mics. And power is strictly from the included power adapter. Battery power isn't an option.

The power adapter plug has a metal locking ring that screws onto the jack so the plug can't be accidentally yanked out while you're recording.

I checked a few Japanese online retailers and they all show the price at ¥49,800 (tax included).

According to the OANDA currency converter (https://www.oanda.com/currency/converter/), that works out to the following prices:

British Pounds	322.95
Euros	384.107
U.S. Dollars	434.566
Canadian Dollars	546.623
Australian Dollars	596.995

To see how this compares to real prices, I checked the Japanese prices of the Zoom R8 and R24, converted them to US dollars at OANDA, then compared with the US dollars prices at Sweetwater.

The Zoom R8 is ¥28,930 which is $252.45 U.S. and Sweetwater is currently offering it for $299.99. A difference of $47.54 (18.8% higher than in Japan).

The Zoom R24 is ¥40,150 which is $350.358 U.S. and Sweetwater is currently offering it for $499.99. A difference of $149.63 (42.7% higher than in Japan).

Factoring in those markups, we get the following possible price ranges:

	Price	+18.8%	+42.7%
British Pounds	322.95	383.67	460.85
Euros	384.107	456.32	548.12
U.S. Dollars	434.566	516.26	620.13
Canadian Dollars	546.623	649.39	780.03
Australian Dollars	596.995	709.23	851.91

So I'm guessing the R20 will be about $516 to $620 US, or £380 to £460 UK. But that's just speculation. Zoom can set whatever prices they like in each country. Also, retailers will often sell for less.

For comparison, here are the current prices for some other recorders at Sweetwater in US dollars.

Boss Micro BR 80	$267.99
Zoom R8	$299.99
TASCAM DP-03SD	$329.00
TASCAM DP-24SD	$499.00
Zoom R24	$499.99

So the Zoom R20 certainly isn't cheap. Although the R20 looks really cool and interesting, the TASCAM DP-24SD may be a lot better and it probably costs less than the R20.

I would have liked to compare it to the price of a BR-800 too but I couldn't find any US online retailers that still carry it. But, if I recall correctly, it was originally selling for about $449 US. So the Zoom R20 will likely be more expensive than the BR-800s were when they were still available.

Yeah, I'm tempted too.

My understand was it's writing to and reading wav as well.
I saw something that implied it can run at the same 24bit 44.1 that I'm running my Studio and anything else on the PC - that would make me feel comfortable that is if I did accidentally get "the" take while noodling with this on the sofa then I wouldn't be getting any mismatch stuff going on.

It also got me wondering about the BR800 - I saw no need for it when I was using the BR1600. But as a feeder to a DAW, mebbe (and I like the Boss DACs).

But, is it discontinued? A quick search looks like it is?

Right at the moment, though, it's kinda less faff setting up and starting a song in my DAW than it was on the BR1600, and I don't need to feel that portable, so something like this would actually be a luxury I don't really need.

If I owned a car and was doing the sort of thing Hook does, yeah, I'd be interested... but it needs mains?
Don't own a car though... in fact, I don't leave the house!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yeah this looks interesting.

We are gonna get some gear to Optimission, and first on our list is a MTR.

We did manage on our last session to use two BR800s hooked together so we got 7 tracks (due to the lack of a mic stand we only used 6), and it worked fine, but as they do not sync, i had to manually sync the tracks from one recorder to the other. (result can be heard here (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=31792.0)).

But we would like to have a recorder with:
* at least 8 inputs (16 if we start using acoustic drums, but that probably won't happen),
* phantom power on all inputs,
* easy transfer of files
* compressor FX on input
* quick setup of new songs (template or ability to easily copy an empty song fully set up)


ah I just realised only two jack inputs .... hmmmmm well

maybe the TASCAM DP-24SD is a better choice...... any thoughts?

Quote from: AndyR on November 19, 2021, 03:52:36 AMYeah, I'm tempted too.

If my speculation about the price proves correct, I'll be a lot less tempted to buy an R20. I'm guessing it will be between $650 and $780 Canadian dollars. The TASCAM DP-24SD is $699.99 Canadian. I'd have to compare the two recorders in detail before making a decision, but my initial feeling is that the TASCAM would be a better choice for me. But everyone's needs are different and I can see how the R20 might be a better choice for some people.

Realistically, I probably won't be buying a new recorder for a long time. The BR-864 works well enough for my current needs. I was initially hoping (perhaps foolishly) that the R20 would be in the neighbourhood of $300 to $400. If it were, then I would be tempted to get one because it would simplify my workflow a bit and it would be fun to play with and explore. But if I'm right that it will be more like $650 to $780, then it isn't worth that much to me for the small benefits I'd gain in workflow and having a bit of fun with a new toy. And, although the TASCAM is probably a better choice for me, I don't really need all that it offers. So I think I'll continue using the BR-864 a while longer. Maybe someone will eventually release an inexpensive multitrack recorder that writes directly to WAV files and accepts a USB flash drive for transferring files. It wouldn't surprise me if Zoom will soon discontinue the R8, R16, and R24 and release some new models with touchscreens like the R20 to complete the product line.

Quote from: AndyR on November 19, 2021, 03:52:36 AMMy understand was it's writing to and reading wav as well.
I saw something that implied it can run at the same 24bit 44.1 that I'm running my Studio and anything else on the PC - that would make me feel comfortable that is if I did accidentally get "the" take while noodling with this on the sofa then I wouldn't be getting any mismatch stuff going on.

When you create a new project, you can click the Details button and set the bit depth to either 16 bit or 24 bit. I expect that, once selected, it will remember your choice for that project. However, I don't know what the default bit depth is. If it's 16 bit, it could be frustrating if you forget to change it to 24 bit when you create your project. It's possible that there's a global setting somewhere where you could tell it to always default new projects to 24 bit, but I haven't seen any evidence of such a setting so far and I kind of doubt that there is one.





By the way, the sampling rate is fixed at 44.1kHz. There is no option for higher settings such as 48kHz, 96kHz, or 192kHz. That's not necessarily a problem but it's good to be aware of for anyone comparing the R20 to other available recorders. For example, the TASCAM DP-24SD offers the choices of 44.1kHz or 48 kHz for sampling rate and 16 bit or 24 bit for the bit depth.

Quote from: AndyR on November 19, 2021, 03:52:36 AMIt also got me wondering about the BR800 - I saw no need for it when I was using the BR1600. But as a feeder to a DAW, mebbe (and I like the Boss DACs).

But, is it discontinued? A quick search looks like it is?

Yes, the BR-800 is marked "discontinued" on the global Boss site (https://www.boss.info/global/products/br-800/). However, the US site (https://www.boss.info/us/categories/backing_rhythm_recorders/) and the UK site (https://www.boss.info/uk/categories/backing_rhythm_recorders/) still list the BR-800 as a current product. I think this means that Boss is no longer manufacturing the BR-800 but Boss US and Boss UK may still have some old stock, so they're not marking it discontinued until all the stock is sold. Or maybe it is discontinued in the US and UK but they haven't updated their websites yet. I searched some popular US online retailers like Sweetwater for the BR-800 and they all said "This item is no longer available". I didn't check any UK sites but I expect it will be the same. The BR-800 is history.

Quote from: Geir on November 19, 2021, 05:55:50 AMBut we would like to have a recorder with:
* at least 8 inputs (16 if we start using acoustic drums, but that probably won't happen),
* phantom power on all inputs,
* easy transfer of files
* compressor FX on input
* quick setup of new songs (template or ability to easily copy an empty song fully set up)


ah I just realised only two jack inputs .... hmmmmm well

According to the specs on the Zoom website, the R20 can record up to 8 tracks simultaneously and play back 16 tracks simultaneously. It has 8 inputs but 6 of them are XLR only and only 4 have phantom power available (switchable on input 5/6 and 7/8). Inputs 1 and 2 are combi jacks which accept either XLR plugs or ¼" TRS plugs, but only input 1 can be set to Hi-Z for a guitar or bass. Files can be transferred very easily since they're in WAV format and there's a USB-C Host connector which can accept a USB flash drive for portable storage. No faffing about with USB cables or WAV converter software. Just copy the files directly to a USB flash drive, then plug the USB flash drive into your computer or whatever and copy the files directly to the desired folder. I haven't found a lot of information on the available effects yet. It definitely has a compressor but it's not clear whether it's only available as a track effect or if it can be applied to the inputs. I'm sure we'll learn more about the effects when the R20 is finally released outside of Japan. Templates are provided for quick setup of new song projects and it appears to allow you to create your own templates but I'm not sure of the details.


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Quote from: Geir on November 19, 2021, 05:55:50 AMmaybe the TASCAM DP-24SD is a better choice...... any thoughts?

I'll do a feature comparison of the R20 and DP-24SD in another message later.

As promised, here's a feature comparison of the Zoom R20 and the TASCAM DP-24SD.

	Zoom R20	TASCAM DP-24SD
Price	$399 US or £349 UK	$499 US or £391 UK
Recording Media	SDHC card (4GB to 32GB) or SDXC card (64 GB to 1TB)	SD card (512MB to 2GB) or SDHC card (4GB to 32GB)
Included card	None	4GB SDHC card
Power	Included AC adapter only	Included AC adapter only
Simultaneous recording	8 tracks	8 tracks
Simultaneous playback	16 tracks	24 tracks (12 mono plus 6 stereo)
Number of Inputs	8	8
Input connectors	6 XLR 2 combi (switchable Hi-Z on 1)	8 combi (switchable Hi-Z on 1)
Phantom power	Inputs 5-6 and/or 7-8	Inputs 1-4 and/or 5-8
Sample rate	44.1kHz	44.1kHz or 48kHz
Bit Depth	16 bit or 24 bit	16 bit or 24 bit
Screen	4.3-inch colour LCD (480 x 272)	3.5-inch TFT colour LCD (320x240)
Touch Screen?	Yes	No
Virtual Tracks	Not sure. Perhaps unlimited.	192 (8 per track)
Track format	WAV	Proprietary with import/export to WAV
Bluetooth?	Yes	No
Metronome?	Yes (40-250 BPM)	Yes (20-250 BPM)
Internal synth	8-voice FM synth with 18 tones and PCM drum kit. Can be controlled with MIDI keyboard controller attached to USB port or via internal piano-roll editor.	None

On other Zoom multitrack recorders, you could change the name of the WAV file that the track is writing to. So, after recording a take on a track, you can change the filename so that subsequent recordings on that track will be written to a different file and the original file (first take) will still be available. By changing filenames, the number of takes you can record is limited only by the amount of storage space available. I assume the R20 will be able to do that too but I'm not certain. The TASCAM has 8 virtual tracks per track for a total of 192 virtual tracks. Since no file renaming is required, it's easier and faster to switch between virtual tracks.

I have a Zoom R24, an older version of this and what I do love about it is it can be battery powered on 6AA batteries that do quite well...and it is so portable...I often do my vocals in the camper or the truck or car...it's so easy to use the on board mics...
overall, it does a very good job and it's easy to get tracks off the zoom to a thumb drive and onto the DAW....
when I first got it, I didn't use it that much...but to be honest I really would not want to be without it now... I don't know much about the Tascam other than some reviews I read...
this is great info you provided 64...thanks...
and I also am happy someone continues to make a recording device that can be used as a DAW interface (my R24 can...)

Quote from: StephenM on November 19, 2021, 04:37:05 PMI have a Zoom R24

Quote from: StephenM on November 19, 2021, 04:37:05 PMit's easy to get tracks off the zoom to a thumb drive and onto the DAW....

I didn't realise that the R24 has a USB Host port. Cool! And so does the R16. Unfortunately, the R8 does not.

(https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31810.0;attach=192554)

It's strange that no one here is talking about the Tascam Model 12 (mixer/interface/recorder/controller)

https://www.tascam.eu/en/model12

that's having a huge success worldwide...

Alfredo

Quote from: alfstone on November 21, 2021, 09:12:12 AMIt's strange that no one here is talking about the Tascam Model 12 (mixer/interface/recorder/controller)

https://www.tascam.eu/en/model12

that's having a huge success worldwide...

Those mixer/recorder products confuse me. Tascam has a range of mixer/recorders (Model 12, Model 16 and Model 24). They also have an even bigger range of multitrack recorders (DP-32SD, DP-24SD, DP-03SD, DP-008EX, and DP-006). If the mixer/recorders are full-featured multitrack recorders, then what is the point of their line of standalone multitrack recorders? Why haven't they been discontinued in favour of the mixer/recorders? Obviously, there must be some trade-offs in features. Otherwise, there'd be no point in offering both product lines.

It's the same with Zoom. They offer the LiveTrak (https://zoomcorp.com/en/jp/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/) L-8, L-12, L-20, and L-20R mixer/recorders, but they also offer a range of multitrack recorders (R8, R16, R24, and the new R20). If the LiveTrak products are great for multitrack recording, why offer a separate line of standalone multitrack recorders? And why release the new R20? Why not release a comparable mixer/recorder instead?

There must be some trade-offs. Unfortunately, I haven't looked at the mixer/recorder products closely enough to know what those trade-offs are. But I suspect that the mixer/recorders lack guitar effects such as amp simulators, tremolo, pitch shifter, distortion, etc. They probably also lack any sort of drum machine, virtual tracks, track bouncing, and track editing. They're obviously designed primarily to be great mixers and are probably aimed at bands for mixing and recording their live gigs and rehearsals. The recording capability is just an extra feature added to capture whatever is output from each mixer channel. On the other hand, the standalone multitrack recorders are designed primarily for multitrack recording and are aimed at bedroom producers, guitarists, and singer/songwriters.

A mixer/recorder might be worth considering for someone like Geir who wants to record his band Optimission. It might also be worth considering for someone who works mainly in a DAW and just wants a recorder to capture some raw tracks that they can import into their DAW, especially if they already have a multi-effects unit for their guitar or some guitar effects pedals, or if they prefer to apply their guitar effects in software.

For me personally, I want a recorder that has a good selection of built-in guitar effects and amp simulations. The elaborate mixing features of those mixer/recorders is overkill for my needs. I don't sing, so I don't need multiple XLR mic inputs with phantom power and high-quality mic preamps. Those are features that I'll never use. I just need a way to record several tracks of my guitar and bass with some good built-in effects and amp sims, and an easy way to get those tracks into my DAW (preferably with a USB memory stick). If the Zoom R8 had a USB Host port and was about $100 cheaper, it might be just the thing for me. For now, I'm still happy with my BR-864. I only wish it had a USB Host port and could write my tracks directly to it as WAV files. Maybe someday Zoom, Tascam or Boss will release an inexpensive recorder that meets my needs better than my BR-864. Until then, I'm content with the BR-864.

A very detailed review of Tascam Model 12:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/tascam-model-12

Alfredo

ouch, thank you Santa Claus to put in my clogs at the foot of the tree

$399.99 at sweetwater. Not bad. Wonder what it'll be in NOK.


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R20--zoom-r20-16-track-recorder-interface-controller-workstations?irgwc=1&utm_source=Impact&utm_medium=Synthanatomy&utm_campaign=Online%20Tracking%20Link&irclickid=1q%3A2MM1OdxyITm1xPf0mJSR5UkGzIzUc00000w0

Quote from: Geir on December 11, 2021, 12:16:29 PM$399.99 at sweetwater. Not bad. Wonder what it'll be in NOK.

3.444 kr at Thomann

https://www.thomannmusic.no/zoom_r20.htm?sid=019e1c0638ae4ea476c1fdd6aa198696&ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5Ijoibm8iLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6MTA4LCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6Mn0%3D&reload=1 (https://www.thomannmusic.no/zoom_r20.htm?sid=019e1c0638ae4ea476c1fdd6aa198696&ref=intl&shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5Ijoibm8iLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6MTA4LCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6Mn0%3D&reload=1)


In the UK, guitarguitar is advertising it for £349.00.

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/211208377998008--zoom-r20-multitrack-recorder-interface-controller-sampler (https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/211208377998008--zoom-r20-multitrack-recorder-interface-controller-sampler)

The Zoom US website (https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r20/) now has lots of info on the R20. It's also on the UK site (https://zoomcorp.com/en/gb/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r20/) and the Canada site (https://zoomcorp.com/en/ca/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r20/), and probably some other countries too.

Here's the R20 Operation Manual and other docs:

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r20/r20-support/ (https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r20/r20-support/)

And there are 6 new R20 videos from Zoom on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwqM3vvQSt5MDdGYYXCtg-2c73lbynv9v (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwqM3vvQSt5MDdGYYXCtg-2c73lbynv9v)

Just showing up to the party and I think I'm leaning toward this R20 machine.
 I hate learning a new system and I also have really disliked the menu designs on all Zoom machines in used. I also don't like the switch between the 1-8 tracks (9-12) and prefer  the virtually track design...but if the price is in $400 range I might do it.
I had a tascam 24sr and it is a great machine, easy to use ( effects are a little confusing at 1st) but quite large. Might be the perfect machine for your band Geir( maybe the 32?)
But I sold mine when I moved into my current ( & hopefully last) house which is smaller and has no space for me to have a studio. I'm agood 7 years away before a room frees up but the r20 could fit on my work desk.
I want faders, there is no scroll wheel ;D and I like Zoom effects. Hope they have decent vocal and bass effects. I assume you can slave a 2nd machine like the r16 and 24 can it you need the inputs.. The touchscreen and daw like editing features intrigue me. im very interested...my wife is probably not.
I would like to know more about the mastering toolkit.

Quote from: Hook on December 14, 2021, 05:45:26 AMI also don't like the switch between the 1-8 tracks (9-12)

Yeah, bank switching of tracks is a pain on most recorders with non-motorized faders. I know from experience because my BR-864 has two banks of 4 faders (tracks 1-4 and 5-8). When you switch banks, tracks can suddenly jump in level because the physical fader no longer matches the level of the track. But the Zoom R20 has an interesting workaround for that problem. When you switch track banks, the mixing display shows you both the physical fader position and the actual track level (they call them "ghost faders"). Moving a fader has no effect on the level until you move it to the position where the physical fader matches the track level and the ghost fader disappears. Then you can move the fader in either direction and it will be in sync with the actual track level. I think this is a good solution to the problem of bank switching with non-motorized faders.



1) Track Faders (white). These show the previous actual setting of the faders. In other words, they indicate where the track level is currently set.

2) Track Ghost Faders (grey). These show the current position of the physical fader. They only appear when the physical position of the fader doesn't correspond to the actual level setting for the track.

Quote from: Hook on December 14, 2021, 05:45:26 AMHope they have decent vocal and bass effects.

I haven't learned much about the effects yet from the manual and other sources online. There is a list of the Patches here:

https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R20_PatchMemoryList.pdf (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R20_PatchMemoryList.pdf)

But I haven't found a complete list of the available effects which make up those patches. However, from looking at the patch list, screenshots in the manual, and searching online, I can guess at the following partial list of effects:

Guitar Amp Simulations:

• MS 800 - Marshall JCM 800.
• DZ DRV - Diezel Herbert Channel2.
• FD DLXR - Fender Deluxe Reverb.
• UK 30A - Vox AC30.
• MATCH30 - Matchless DC-30.
• ORG120 - Orange Graphic120

Guitar Amp Speaker Simulations:

• MS4x12 - Marshall 4x12 cabinet.

Pedal Effects:

• AutoWah
• Chorus
• Compressor
• GoldDrive - "Models a famous gold overdrive boutique pedal."
• Plate - Plate reverb

Bass Amp Simulations:

• AMPG SVT - Ampeg SVT bass amp.
• BMAN100 - Fender Bassman 100.
• SMR400 - SWR SM-400 bass amp.
• AG 750 - Aguilar DB 750 bass amp.

Bass Amp Speaker Simulations:

• SVT8x10 - Ampeg SVT 8x10 cabinet.
• FD-B4x12 - Fender 4x12 bass cabinet.
• SMR4x10TW - SWR GOLIATH cabinet with four 10" speakers and a tweeter.
• AG4x10TW - Aguilar GS410 cabinet with four 10" speakers and a tweeter.

Bass Pedal Effects:

• Bass DRV - SansAmp Bass Driver DI (https://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/bassdriver-di/) pedal.
• D.I Plus - MXR Bass D.I.+ (https://www.jimdunlop.com/mxr-bass-di/) pedal.
• Dark Pre - Darkglass Electronics Microtubes B7K (https://www.darkglass.com/creations/microtubes-b7k/) analog bass preamp pedal.

Microphone Simulations:

• Hm Bullet - Green Bullet (https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/microphones/520dx) harmonica mic.

Dynamics and EQ:

• LMT-76 - UREI 1176LN (https://www.uaudio.com/hardware/1176ln.html) limiter.
• Low EQ - "Designed for low frequencies, this equalizer allows you to select the type."
• ParaEQx2 - Parametric equalizer.

Many of the descriptions above were derived from these documents:

• https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_G5n_G3n_G3Xn_FX-list.pdf.pdf (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_G5n_G3n_G3Xn_FX-list.pdf.pdf)
• https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_G11_FX-list.pdf (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_G11_FX-list.pdf)
• https://www.zoom.co.jp/archive/GUITAR_LAB/EffectUpateHistory/Effect_Update_History_EN.pdf (https://www.zoom.co.jp/archive/GUITAR_LAB/EffectUpateHistory/Effect_Update_History_EN.pdf)
• https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_B3n_FX-list.pdf

Quote from: Hook on December 14, 2021, 05:45:26 AMI would like to know more about the mastering toolkit.

As far as I can tell so far, it doesn't have any mastering effects. However, you can apply send effects (reverb) and insert effects to each track when mixing. And there's a compressor/limiter/gate on each track, but you can only use one of the three choices per track.



You can also adjust Low/Mid/High EQ for each track.

64!!!!  thanks for telling about the "ghost" faders...that is a great idea... I have recorded alot on my zoom r24 and the fader positions with the bank switches can be very confusing.. the new approach should make that problem obsolete...
what i do now is take the tracks off the zoom to the DAW and mix... but if I am somewhere where I don't have access to internet or a computer that doesn't help

You can do the "ghost" fader thing on the BR recorders that use "scenes". It saves the fader locations, which can be viewed from the fader display in the menu. They remain in their saved position until you move the physical fader, then they re-sync.
Very cool actually - I use it a lot on the BR1600.

Quote from: Woodlake on December 14, 2021, 08:33:53 PMYou can do the "ghost" fader thing on the BR recorders that use "scenes". It saves the fader locations, which can be viewed from the fader display in the menu. They remain in their saved position until you move the physical fader, then they re-sync.
Very cool actually - I use it a lot on the BR1600.

the BR 1600 has alot of features that make things easier that I never tried...I just sold one of my BR's to a guy and he sent me a text about how to use it...so I was remembering all the things I have learned through the years that we just take for granted... I still love my BR even if just for the guitar patches and it's really great for recording drums as it has pretty good compression etc..

I'm interested in knowing if this has a line in/line out feature, I use that for getting drums off GarageBand most of the time. It sounds like there isn't any though  :'(

Quote from: BerryPatch on December 15, 2021, 09:13:10 AMI'm interested in knowing if this has a line in/line out feature, I use that for getting drums off GarageBand most of the time. It sounds like there isn't any though  :'(

It doesn't have RCA phono jacks labelled Line In and Line Out like you'd find on a BR. However, any of the 8 inputs can accept line level signals, so it's just a matter of finding the right cables or using adapters so you can plug your computer/tablet/phone's audio output into the R20's inputs. You'll probably want to use inputs 1 and 2 since they're the only ones that accept ¼" phone plugs. Although, the other 6 inputs would work too if you had a cable with an XLR plug on the end that goes into the recorder. The R20's outputs are balanced ¼" phone jacks. So again, it's just a matter of getting the right cables or adapters to connect the R20's outputs to your device's inputs.

Transferring your drums this way will work but it includes an unnecessary digital-to-analog conversion on the iOS device followed by an analog-to-digital conversion to bring it into the R20. A better way would be to output your drums from GarageBand as a stereo WAV file and save it on a USB flash drive, then plug the flash drive into the R20 and import the drums. That way everything stays digital. There is no digital-to-analog-to-digital conversion.

Another way would be to us the R20 as an audio interface and send the drum track directly from GarageBand to the R20 over a USB cable. See pages 138 to 144 in the R20 Operation Manual (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R20.pdf#page=138). There's also a YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWpYVdmvP0c) about using the R20 as an audio interface.

64 wrote:  "Transferring your drums this way will work but it includes an unnecessary digital-to-analog conversion on the iOS device followed by an analog-to-digital conversion to bring it into the R20. A better way would be to output your drums from GarageBand as a stereo WAV file and save it on a USB flash drive, then plug the flash drive into the R20 and import the drums. That way everything stays digital. There is no digital-to-analog-to-digital conversion."

yup ...I do this with my R24... it's easy and pretty fast...much faster than getting files off the BR...
but i also use adapters to go from my phone jack to xlr so I can play to some songs etc.... and since I am not recording it, i don't care about panning on that part..

One thing worth noting about the R20's insert effects is that each patch can only have 3 effects in its chain. Now, I think of effects as the pedals that go between my guitar and my amp, so 3 effects seems adequate. But on the R20, the amp sims and speaker sims are insert effects. For nearly every electric guitar patch, I'm going to want an amp sim and speaker sim. So that only allows me to use one pedal-type effect per patch. That seems like a pretty serious limitation compared to other recorders. To be fair, the BRs are a bit limited too since you can only have one modulation effect per patch. But at least you can combine that modulation effect with a compressor, wah, and delay, along with your favourite amp sim and speaker sim.

Of course, if you're creating patches for vocals or acoustic guitar, for example, then you probably won't want an amp sim and speaker sim, so you can use all three effect slots for pedal-type effects. But for electric guitarists, three effects is pretty limiting when two of them will always be used for the amp sim and speaker sim.

even with the R24 you are limited to using the insert effects to 1 channel at a time... so you can't have an effect for the bass track and another for the vocal and another for the guitar...but i get around this by getting the sound I want and then bouncing the track with the effect on it to another track...then I can use the insert effect on another channel...you can use basic reverb and chorus on any track however
there are some cool sounding effects though... looks like the new R20 has a lot better screen than my R24 does. 

Many thanks for all the info 64, I'm definitely going to get on as soon as they are available in the UK. It appears that they can be pre ordered but I'm going to wait until I can get my hands on it.
It does look an interesting piece of kit, can't wait to splash the cash.
Willie (The Gobi Desert Canoe Club)

I'm not sure when the Zoom R20 will be widely available but it could be quite a while yet. Andertons (https://www.andertons.co.uk/zoom-r20-recorder-interface-controller-sampler) says it will be "3 Months or Longer". GAK (https://www.gak.co.uk/en/zoom-r20-portable-multi-track-recorder/950127) is expecting stock on March 18th, and dv247 (https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Zoom-R20/art-REC0015841-000) says March 29th.

In the USA, most stores, including Sweetwater (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R20--zoom-r20-16-track-recorder-interface-controller-workstations), don't have it in stock and aren't saying when they expect it. But Alto Music (https://www.altomusic.com/zoom-r20-multitrack-recorder-zr20#child_index=1611) says "Ready to ship immediately!", zZounds (https://www.zzounds.com/item--ZOOZR20) says it will be delivered by Feb. 11 if ordered today, and American Musical Supply (https://www.americanmusical.com/zoom-r20-multitrack-digital-recorder/p/ZOO-ZR20) says it's "Back In Stock".

In Canada, Long & McQuade (https://www.long-mcquade.com/instore_stock/767214/) claims to have it in stock at several of their stores in Ontario and one in B.C. Their price is $519.99. But it's currently out of stock at their main warehouse for online orders.

I get the impression that a very limited supply was shipped to some retailers and was quickly sold out. Now most stores are waiting for more stock but it looks like that could take a while.

I do wonder about buying any new product from the first production run. I think there could be problems in manufacturing which they will then sort out before their next production run. And the firmware will certainly be updated. The Zoom website says about the R20's Control Surface capability "Supported in FIRMWARE V2.0 to be released in the spring 2022". Of course, users should be able to update their firmware themselves when it becomes available. But if you wait and make sure that you get one that already has firmware version 2.0, it will save you the trouble of doing the update. And hopefully by then the manufacturing will be running more smoothly and they'll have fixed any problems they might have had in the first production runs.

My Boss BR-864 is nearly 19 years old now. It still works just fine and I'm pretty happy with it, but I decided it was time to try something more modern. So I ordered a Zoom R20 on Tuesday and it arrived this afternoon.

First impressions are that it's pretty cool, though it has a few odd quirks. And some of my expectations may have been inaccurate. For example, I assumed that I'd be able to edit the settings of the built-in FM synth to create my own sounds, but that doesn't appear to be possible. As far as I can tell so far, it just has the 19 built-in presets (E.Piano, Bright E.P, Mellow E.P, Bell, Organ1, Organ2, Pipe Organ, Finger Bass1, Finger Bass2, Pick Bass, Slap Bass, AcousticBass, Synth Bass1, Synth Bass2, Brass1, Brass2, Brass3, Synth Lead, and Drum Kit) and you can't change them. That's disappointing. Although, an FM synth with 19 presets is certainly better than no synth at all. I don't believe there is currently any other multitrack recorder that includes a built-in synth, so the synth in the R20 is a welcome feature, even if it's not as versatile as I'd hoped it would be.

The insert effects are better than I expected. They include a simulation of the HIWATT Custom 100 and the HIWATT 4x12 speaker cabinet. I happen to own a HIWATT Custom 50 amplifier and the 4x12 cabinet, so I'm really pleased that I can now emulate it in my recordings on the Zoom R20.

I was also pleased to find that the Guitar Lab software for Windows seems to work just fine in Linux (using Wine (https://www.winehq.org/)). I was able to create a new patch using the HIWATT 100 amp and cabinet models, insert it at the top of the effects list (so I can find it quickly), and save it to the R20. I still have lots to learn about the Guitar Lab software, so I'll be studying the manual in the coming days and experimenting with Guitar Lab's features.

After I've had a few days to get to know the R20 and Guitar Lab, I'll post a detailed review. Meanwhile, if anyone has any questions, post them in this topic and I'll try to answer them.

That is awesome 64, I can't wait to hear more about it!!!
Rock on!

Hi guys, 64 gave me the heads up regarding the Zoom R20 when my BR900cd lost the guitar input channel, it has given up the ghost totally now. It no longer recognises the memory card, I have tried all the suggested cures but to no avail.
Meanwhile I have bought a used BR800 which seems a bit fiddly but I think it's just a question of remembering which menu is needed for specific tasks.
I shall be very interested to know how SC members get on with the new Zoom. Willie

Quote from: The Gobi Desert Canoe Club on August 06, 2022, 01:21:43 PMHi guys, 64 gave me the heads up regarding the Zoom R20 when my BR900cd lost the guitar input channel, it has given up the ghost totally now. It no longer recognises the memory card, I have tried all the suggested cures but to no avail.

Have you looked in the CompactFlash slot for a bent or snapped pin? Could also be dust and debris in the CF slot which would prevent it from making a good connection. Do you get an error message about the unrecognised CF card?

QuoteMeanwhile I have bought a used BR800 which seems a bit fiddly but I think it's just a question of remembering which menu is needed for specific tasks.

Probably just a matter of getting used to it. Give it time. And study the manual. The more you learn about it, the easier it will be to operate.

Does the Zoom R20 have onboard sequenced drums?

Quote from: WarpCanada on August 06, 2022, 06:36:42 PMDoes the Zoom R20 have onboard sequenced drums?

It doesn't have anything like the BRs have where you can string together a bunch of preset patterns into a drum arrangement. Instead, it comes with 150 drum beat clips in WAV files which you load into a stereo drum track. Each clip might only be a couple of bars long but you can drag its right edge to make it repeat for as many bars as you like. There are clips for intro, verse, bridge, chorus, and outro in a variety of styles. The R20 also includes 9 project templates which each include a selection of drum clips (intro, verse, etc.) in several styles (rock, R&B, electronic, hip hop, percussion, funk, disco, blues, and standard). The templates are meant to be used when starting a new project.

There's also another way to make a drum track on the R20. One of the included synth presets is a full drum kit. So you can use that to create a drum track in the piano roll editor. Or you can import a standard MIDI file of drums and the R20 will play it back through the drum preset of the synth.

Another way to use the synth's drum preset is to connect a MIDI controller and record yourself playing the drums live. Since it's recorded as MIDI rather than audio, you can fix up any mistakes later with the piano roll editor. I've connected my Nektar SE25 (https://nektartech.com/se25-midi-controller/) mini keyboard and my Korg nanoPAD2 (https://www.korg.com/us/products/computergear/nanopad2/) to the R20. They both work well with the synth's drum preset, but the nanoPAD was really made for finger drumming.

My R24 has synth..  i believe it can be edited.  I like what it does, especially on vocals

Zoom R20 Effects

When the Zoom R20 was announced, I started searching for information about it, especially about the included effects. There wasn't much information available at first. Eventually, Zoom provided the manual and other documents on their R20 support page. That helped a lot but, unfortunately, it didn't include a list of the effects that are included with the R20. They provided a list of patches (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R20_PatchMemoryList.pdf), but there's no list of the effects that make up those patches. There is still nothing today and I could find no information about the effects anywhere on the web. So, since I now own a Zoom R20, I decided to make my own list of the included effects for the benefit of anyone else who's considering an R20 and wants to know what effects are included.

The R20 includes 77 effects (well, 76 really because effect #1 is a simple Bypass. ie; no effect at all). That's quite a large number of effects. For comparison, the Boss BR-800 includes 34 insert effects and 3 loop effects, for a total of 37. So the Zoom R20 includes twice as many effects as the BR-800. The Boss Micro BR-80 has a total of 23 effects. So the Zoom R20 has more than three times as many effects as the BR-80.

But that's not all! Using Zoom's free Guitar Lab software, you can install over 160 additional effects directly into your R20's internal memory. Of course, that memory has a limit, so you might not have room for all of the available effects, but you can add quite a lot. For example, when I got my R20, the Guitar Lab software reported that the included 77 effects were occupying 67% of the available memory. I used the Guitar Lab software to install 18 additional effects and the total amount of memory used in my R20 rose to only 69%; a measly 2% increase for 18 effects. At that rate of memory consumption, I could add a lot more effects before running out of memory; possibly all of them.

The R20 doesn't distinguish between loop effects and insert effects like the Boss recorders do. With the R20, any effect can be used as either an insert effect or a loop effect. However, you can't use insert effects and loop effects simultaneously; you have to choose one or the other. But that's okay because loop effects are usually only used when mixing your tracks, and insert effects are usually only used when recording your individual tracks.

One limitation that's harder to dismiss is that you can only use a maximum of three effects at a time. For vocals, and perhaps a lot of other things, that might be okay. But for electric guitar, three effects doesn't go very far, since you'll usually want one of those three effects to be an amp sim, and another to be a cabinet sim. That means there's only one slot left for another effect such as a phase shifter or delay. If you needed to use a flanger and a reverb, for example, you'd have to be willing to give up the amp sim and/or cabinet sim.

Anyway, I'm attaching my list of Zoom R20 effects as a 13-page pdf file. For effects that model or simulate a known hardware effect, amp, or cabinet, I've included a picture of the device which I found on the web. For all other effects, I've included a picture of the effect's controls from the Guitar Lab software.

Have a look:   Zoom R20 - Included Effects - by 64Guitars - v1.00 - 2022-09-09.pdf


By the way, I'm still working on my review of the Zoom R20. It's currently 6 pages long. I hope to finish it and post it in a few days. If you're thinking of getting an R20, I'd recommend waiting until I've posted my review because the R20 has several fairly serious shortcomings that you should be aware of before deciding to buy one.

 

I don't own a Zoom R20, but I was curious enough to look at the document you made.  It is very nicely done; zoom should hire you as part of their documentation and advertising team. Now I have GAS for one of these units.  I have a R24 which is an earlier Zoom unit that seems to have less functions.  But on the other hand, I'm mostly using Reaper DAW nowadays.
   

Review of the Zoom R20 by 64Guitars



I finally finished my review of the Zoom R20 today. It's 7 pages long so I'm attaching it to this message in pdf format. Here's a link to it:

Zoom R20 Review by 64Guitars - v1.00 - 2022-09-12.pdf

The R20 could have been a great recorder. Unfortunately, it's disappointing for several reasons; the top two being that the HiZ input can only be recorded to tracks 1 and 9, and there's no way to export a track to a USB stick. It's possible that Zoom could fix these serious flaws in a firmware update but I don't know if they plan to do so. Unless and until these flaws are fixed, I can't recommend the R20 for most people. I'd suggest looking at the TASCAM DP-24SD or the Boss BR-800 instead. However, if Zoom decides to fix those two major flaws, then I'd recommend the R20. It's a cool recorder with some great features and loads of good effects.

Quote from: 64Guitars on September 12, 2022, 06:00:05 PMthe HiZ input can only be recorded to tracks 1 and 9,

This is also the case on the R24.  The way I eventually figured out to deal with it is that I record a guitar/bass track on input 1, and then immediately afterwards assign the recorded file to a different track (e.g., track 2).  Then record another guitar/bass on input 1, and repeat the procedure (e.g., assign the file to track 3), etc.  I don't know if the same procedure can be used on the R20?  On the R24, a list of all the WAV files that get recorded on any input can be picked from to be assigned to any track fairly quickly (it is not a copy-paste procedure, just an instant "assignment").

Quote from: des0free on September 12, 2022, 09:54:02 PM

Quote from: 64Guitars on September 12, 2022, 06:00:05 PMthe HiZ input can only be recorded to tracks 1 and 9,

This is also the case on the R24.  The way I eventually figured out to deal with it is that I record a guitar/bass track on input 1, and then immediately afterwards assign the recorded file to a different track (e.g., track 2).  Then record another guitar/bass on input 1, and repeat the procedure (e.g., assign the file to track 3), etc.  I don't know if the same procedure can be used on the R20?  On the R24, a list of all the WAV files that get recorded on any input can be picked from to be assigned to any track fairly quickly (it is not a copy-paste procedure, just an instant "assignment").

The R20 has no Track Swap function nor a WAV file assignment function. It does, however, have an "Add Audio File" function which can load WAV files from the SD card, a USB stick, or the current project folder. So you could copy the file from track 1 to an empty track by selecting the empty track and choosing "Add Audio File", then "Project", then selecting the file from track 1. This part is a bit tricky though since all of the track files have very similar names in the format RECxx_yy.WAV where xx is the track that the file was recorded on and the yy is the recording number. And when you move track 1 to another track, the WAV file doesn't get renamed. For example, if you start a new project and record rhythm guitar on track 1, the WAV file will be named REC01_01.WAV. If we move this track to track 2, we can now record some bass on track 1 and it will be named REC01_02.WAV. We'll move this to track 3 and record some lead guitar on track 1, then move it to track 4 and record something else on track 1.

Now, suppose we want to copy the bass track to track 5. We go to track 5, select Add Audio File and Project, and we're presented with the following list of project track files:

REC01_01.WAV
REC01_02.WAV
REC01_03.WAV
REC01_04.WAV

So which of these files has the bass? ???

Notice that the filenames give no indication of which track they're currently on. They only tell you which track they were originally recorded on. In this case, they were all recorded on track 1, so they all start with "REC01_". If you happen to remember that the bass track was the second thing you recorded on track 1, then you could guess that the bass is in REC01_02.WAV. And, in this case, you'd be right. But it gets more complicated. I actually tried this example on my R20 by plugging a mic into input 1 and recording myself speaking the words "rhythm", "bass", "lead guitar", and "something else" on the four tracks. But when I did the lead guitar track, I didn't notice that the track wasn't armed, so it just recorded an empty region. I deleted this region, armed the track, and recorded "lead guitar" again. When I went to move this track to track 4, I saw the following list of filenames to choose from:

REC01_01.WAV
REC01_02.WAV
REC01_04.WAV

Notice that there's no REC01_03.WAV because that file was deleted. So the lead guitar is in REC01_04.WAV.

I then recorded another track speaking "something else" on track 1. To my surprise, the filename for this track became REC01_03.WAV, not REC01_05.WAV as I expected. This means that the recording number part of the filename is not a reliable indicator of the order in which the tracks were recorded. In this example, REC01_03.WAV is the 4th track I recorded and REC01_04.WAV is the 3rd track I recorded, which is the opposite of what you'd expect based on the recording number part of the filename.

Obviously, what's needed to make this track moving procedure practical is a way to rename the tracks to something more recognizable like "Rhythm_Guitar_01.wav", "Bass_01.wav", "Lead_Gtr_01.wav", etc. The number is to help distinguish multiple takes. For example, if you recorded three takes of the lead guitar, you could name them "Lead_Gtr_01.wav", "Lead_Gtr_02.wav", and "Lead_Gtr_03.wav". Unfortunately, the R20 has no such rename feature. I would like to see the addition of file management features in a future firmware update, including a file rename function. That would solve a couple of problems with the R20.

Unless and until Zoom adds a rename function, the best way I've found to move track 1 is to first export it to the /AUDIO folder of the SD card. This allows you to give the exported track a meaningful name like "Bass_01.wav". Then, when you go to an empty track and select "Add Audio File", then "SD Card", it will be easy to see which track has your bass. A bonus to using this method is that when you later export your project to a USB stick, all of the tracks recorded on track 1 and moved to another track will have meaningful filenames, making them much easier to identify. For example, when I used this method to repeat the test above, then exported the project to a USB stick, I found the following files in the project folder on the USB stick:

Bass_01.wav
Lead_Gtr_01.wav
R20PRJDATA.r20prj
REC01_02.wav
Rhythm_Guitar_01.wav

"REC01_02.WAV" is the "something else" track. Since I recorded it last, it doesn't have a meaningful filename because I never exported it. "R20PRJDATA.r20prj" is the project file which contains various settings for the project. The remaining files are very easy to identify because I gave them meaningful names when I exported them from track 1.

There is one flaw in this export/import method of copying track 1. If track 1 has multiple regions, then exporting the track will merge them all into a single region. So, when you import it into an empty track, it will be one big region and you will no longer be able to loop or time-stretch the individual sections that were in the original track. So, for tracks containing multiple regions, it might be best to use copy and paste of each region rather than export and import of the whole track.

I love my R24!!!!  It took some time for me to get all I can do with it... it looks to me as though this is a major step backwards for Zoom... I dunno, the only thing I kind of like is the screen is bigger, just from the photos and the like.  Your review is very extensive... kudo's on that.  I have no experience with the Tascam but I wouldn't hesitate to get one if needed.... I might try and find a used one at some point just because I like trying new things... but only if I could get it on the cheap as really I don't need it...The inability to move files to a thumbdrive (usb) would be a deal breaker for me...

Quote from: 64Guitars on September 13, 2022, 01:04:58 PM

Quote from: des0free on September 12, 2022, 09:54:02 PM

Quote from: 64Guitars on September 12, 2022, 06:00:05 PMthe HiZ input can only be recorded to tracks 1 and 9,

This is also the case on the R24.  The way I eventually figured out to deal with it is that I record a guitar/bass track on input 1, and then immediately afterwards assign the recorded file to a different track (e.g., track 2).  Then record another guitar/bass on input 1, and repeat the procedure (e.g., assign the file to track 3), etc.  I don't know if the same procedure can be used on the R20?  On the R24, a list of all the WAV files that get recorded on any input can be picked from to be assigned to any track fairly quickly (it is not a copy-paste procedure, just an instant "assignment").

The R20 has no Track Swap function nor a WAV file assignment function. It does, however, have an "Add Audio File" function which can load WAV files from the SD card, a USB stick, or the current project folder. So you could copy the file from track 1 to an empty track by selecting the empty track and choosing "Add Audio File", then "Project", then selecting the file from track 1. This part is a bit tricky though since all of the track files have very similar names in the format RECxx_yy.WAV where xx is the track that the file was recorded on and the yy is the recording number. And when you move track 1 to another track, the WAV file doesn't get renamed. For example, if you start a new project and record rhythm guitar on track 1, the WAV file will be named REC01_01.WAV. If we move this track to track 2, we can now record some bass on track 1 and it will be named REC01_02.WAV. We'll move this to track 3 and record some lead guitar on track 1, then move it to track 4 and record something else on track 1.

Now, suppose we want to copy the bass track to track 5. We go to track 5, select Add Audio File and Project, and we're presented with the following list of project track files:

REC01_01.WAV
REC01_02.WAV
REC01_03.WAV
REC01_04.WAV

So which of these files has the bass? ???

Notice that the filenames give no indication of which track they're currently on. They only tell you which track they were originally recorded on. In this case, they were all recorded on track 1, so they all start with "REC01_". If you happen to remember that the bass track was the second thing you recorded on track 1, then you could guess that the bass is in REC01_02.WAV. And, in this case, you'd be right. But it gets more complicated. I actually tried this example on my R20 by plugging a mic into input 1 and recording myself speaking the words "rhythm", "bass", "lead guitar", and "something else" on the four tracks. But when I did the lead guitar track, I didn't notice that the track wasn't armed, so it just recorded an empty region. I deleted this region, armed the track, and recorded "lead guitar" again. When I went to move this track to track 4, I saw the following list of filenames to choose from:

REC01_01.WAV
REC01_02.WAV
REC01_04.WAV

Notice that there's no REC01_03.WAV because that file was deleted. So the lead guitar is in REC01_04.WAV.

I then recorded another track speaking "something else" on track 1. To my surprise, the filename for this track became REC01_03.WAV, not REC01_05.WAV as I expected. This means that the recording number part of the filename is not a reliable indicator of the order in which the tracks were recorded. In this example, REC01_03.WAV is the 4th track I recorded and REC01_04.WAV is the 3rd track I recorded, which is the opposite of what you'd expect based on the recording number part of the filename.

Obviously, what's needed to make this track moving procedure practical is a way to rename the tracks to something more recognizable like "Rhythm_Guitar_01.wav", "Bass_01.wav", "Lead_Gtr_01.wav", etc. The number is to help distinguish multiple takes. For example, if you recorded three takes of the lead guitar, you could name them "Lead_Gtr_01.wav", "Lead_Gtr_02.wav", and "Lead_Gtr_03.wav". Unfortunately, the R20 has no such rename feature. I would like to see the addition of file management features in a future firmware update, including a file rename function. That would solve a couple of problems with the R20.

Unless and until Zoom adds a rename function, the best way I've found to move track 1 is to first export it to the /AUDIO folder of the SD card. This allows you to give the exported track a meaningful name like "Bass_01.wav". Then, when you go to an empty track and select "Add Audio File", then "SD Card", it will be easy to see which track has your bass. A bonus to using this method is that when you later export your project to a USB stick, all of the tracks recorded on track 1 and moved to another track will have meaningful filenames, making them much easier to identify. For example, when I used this method to repeat the test above, then exported the project to a USB stick, I found the following files in the project folder on the USB stick:

Bass_01.wav
Lead_Gtr_01.wav
R20PRJDATA.r20prj
REC01_02.wav
Rhythm_Guitar_01.wav

"REC01_02.WAV" is the "something else" track. Since I recorded it last, it doesn't have a meaningful filename because I never exported it. "R20PRJDATA.r20prj" is the project file which contains various settings for the project. The remaining files are very easy to identify because I gave them meaningful names when I exported them from track 1.

There is one flaw in this export/import method of copying track 1. If track 1 has multiple regions, then exporting the track will merge them all into a single region. So, when you import it into an empty track, it will be one big region and you will no longer be able to loop or time-stretch the individual sections that were in the original track. So, for tracks containing multiple regions, it might be best to use copy and paste of each region rather than export and import of the whole track.

Oh, I see.  That's a shame.  Maybe what you wrote about it not mattering much about using or not using the "high z" input is the way to go then.  I've noticed the same thing on my R24 - sometimes I forgot to switch the "high z" on and recorded my guitar. I thought about re-recording, but it sounded just find, so I would usually just keep it.

Zoom has announced the new R12 multitrack recorder. It has most of the features of the R20 but only 8 tracks and 2 inputs. It's much smaller than the R20 and, unlike the R20, it can run on batteries (4xAA). It has an Input Routing feature that lets you assign either of the two inputs to any of the 8 tracks. I hope Zoom will add that feature to a firmware update for the R20!

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r12/ (https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r12/)

Here's the operation manual: https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R12.pdf (https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_R12.pdf)

The R12 can be pre-ordered for $299.99 at Sweetwater (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R12Zoom--zoom-r12-multitrak-recorder-with-touchscreen) or $324.99 with the AC adapter.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-QAc80cv2Q




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQbubU2sAEA

Quote from: 64Guitars on September 26, 2022, 12:32:43 AMZoom has announced the new R12 multitrack recorder. It has most of the features of the R20 but only 8 tracks and 2 inputs. It's much smaller than the R20 and, unlike the R20, it can run on batteries (4xAA).

I've been about to pull the trigger on the BR 800 for freakin' years now, and this makes it even less likely that I ever will. The R20 is overkill for my scenarios, and the R12 seems like it could meet my needs: Do what the Micro BR can do and more, portability, and I ultimately want to ditch GarageBand when/if my Mac dies. (I don't want to buy/use Apple or Microsoft again once this computer dies – and I prefer to not use a computer at all when making music.) Plus the R12 appeals to my vague aspirations to maybe do some live recording with others.

Do you know if this has something like "virtual tracks?" I looked in the manual, and I didn't see it. Maybe they are called something else in Zoom terminology.

Quote from: Ted on September 29, 2022, 04:07:25 AM

Quote from: 64Guitars on September 26, 2022, 12:32:43 AMZoom has announced the new R12 multitrack recorder. It has most of the features of the R20 but only 8 tracks and 2 inputs. It's much smaller than the R20 and, unlike the R20, it can run on batteries (4xAA).

I've been about to pull the trigger on the BR 800 for freakin' years now, and this makes it even less likely that I ever will. The R20 is overkill for my scenarios, and the R12 seems like it could meet my needs: Do what the Micro BR can do and more, portability, and I ultimately want to ditch GarageBand when/if my Mac dies. (I don't want to buy/use Apple or Microsoft again once this computer dies – and I prefer to not use a computer at all when making music.) Plus the R12 appeals to my vague aspirations to maybe do some live recording with others.

Do you know if this has something like "virtual tracks?" I looked in the manual, and I didn't see it. Maybe they are called something else in Zoom terminology.

what you call virtual tracks they don't have...but, as 64 commented on, you can keep a take and it can be hidden and available to use on any track.  Its fairly simple once you see how to do it.  So on the R24 I select "track" and then the channel, and select file, then all the available recorded files show on the screen, along with "new take".  If I select new take, then the track that I just recorded stays on the project but hidden until I select it somewhere to use.  so in essence, this is the same as virtual tracks.  I am sure the new Zoom we are talking about has a bit different method...but the idea is the same... at around 350 with the power supply this is a great recorder... I would also say that I love zoom's guitar sounds that are available and some of the others for vocals, etc are awesome too... and the fact it is so portable is very handy, for people like me... as far as live recording with others.. this would not be the best tool as there is only 2 inputs... so that would not work for a band, unless you just want to record stereo mix and then someone has to make sure that the mix going into the recorder is right... I would consider getting one of these... but I don't really need it as my R24 is still very useful...more and more I use it.  I almost gave up on it because I was using it all wrong...but now I love it.

Quote from: StephenM on September 29, 2022, 07:39:38 AMas far as live recording with others.. this would not be the best tool as there is only 2 inputs... so that would not work for a band,

Hmmm... Maybe the BR 800 still has a shot. Plus it has built-in microphones. Although that might be a dumb reason to like the BR 800.

Quote from: Ted on September 29, 2022, 08:52:22 AM

Quote from: StephenM on September 29, 2022, 07:39:38 AMas far as live recording with others.. this would not be the best tool as there is only 2 inputs... so that would not work for a band,

Hmmm... Maybe the BR 800 still has a shot. Plus it has built-in microphones. Although that might be a dumb reason to like the BR 800.

My zoom r24 does also and they work very well imo... but at 500 new and about 300 used it may not be the best choice... also can run on 6AA batteries which I use all the time.. and sometimes I use it live as a mixer which I plug my electric guitar into and get the distortion settings easily... and that allows me to have a few pre recorded drum tracks and bass that I can play along with if needed... but I generally only do that once in a while.. I don't want to become a slave to machines playing live...

I don't understand the track confusion with the R20. You don't have to do a track import thing every time. You record on a track. You can simply drag it over to any other track for playback or just to save it aside.
So let's say you are doing guitars direct in on input 1. I would go to track 9 - which will record the input of track 1 there, then drag it over to tracks 10 through 16.
For punch ins, there is no auto punch, but I would do a manual punch into a track of silence. Then record the part in the silence on another track.
With a mic that needs phantom power, I would use track 8 which has phantom, then drag the takes to a lower track as well. Tight but certainly doable.
The R20 is on sale for $299 right now, and for the quality of the recordings alone I think it is worth it, the audio quality is very very good.
The actual limitations are it does only have one midi track, and one drum loop track. And *one* effect you can use either as an insert or as a send. An insert will print to the track. There are actually a couple very good acoustic guitar models available as insert effects.
For acoustic singer songwriter work, it's great. I do think they can improve it in future firmware updates with templates that say, sacrifice MIDI for an second effect. But even as it is, $299 ... Totally worth it in my view.

Quote from: Billy Tree on October 05, 2022, 01:52:30 AMThe actual limitations are ... *one* effect you can use either as an insert or as a send.

The only way I have figured out around this if I want to use effects on more than one track is to "bounce" (record) that track to another track with the effect on it.  Then the effect is permanently there but you cannot adjust it further.  I am however talking about the R24 which is a bit different but I would think the R20 can do the same.  If you actually can get this for 300 that is a steal (although the lowest I saw was at B and H for 350.) 
If you know of a different way to do the effects to tracks I would like to hear about it.  Generally I just take the tracks off the recorder to the DAW software and add effects there.  Sometimes though I like to do everything (except final mastering) on the Zoom, like when I am away on vacation or something.

I recently got the R20 and I absolutely love it. Mainly use it to record my guitar processors, HX Stomp etc. The touch screen is great and as mentioned above when a track is recorded simply move it to another track to free up the track again. If any of you have questions or are considering the R20 just let me know.

Happy Holidays, Mark  :)

Hey there, new dude first post!

I just picked up the R20 after quite a bit of research including watching Gaz Rendar's YouTube video and reading Guitar64's excellent review. I do agree that for the $450 list price it shouldn't have the limitations it does. But I picked mine up for $275 on reverb.com and couldn't be happier.

I'm replacing an R16 which itself replaced Ardour on an Ubuntu Studio PC. The R20 is soooo much easier to use for my hobbyist songwriting/recording than the other tools.

Quote from: Caulfield on November 16, 2023, 05:30:38 AMI just picked up the R20

If you play electric guitar or electric bass, I recommend getting a Hosa MIT-129 1/4 inch TS to XLR Male Impedance Transformer (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIT129--hosa-mit-129). It provides a practical solution to Zoom's huge mistake of only allowing you to record an electric guitar to track 1 or track 9. Using the Hosa adapter, you can record your electric guitar or bass directly to any of the R20's 16 tracks, which is as it should be.

You might also find it helpful to get a stylus. It will allow you to use the R20's touchscreen a bit more precisely. It needn't be expensive. I got one for $2 at the local Dollarama store.