Whenever you're inspired to augment or change another member's song post in any way, please be sure to ask their permission before you post anything. If the original post is a collaboration, you should inform each of the contributors of your intentions and make sure that they're all okay with your proposed changes.
Once you've got their permission and made your changes, it's best that you send your changes privately to the original poster via email or PM and let them post the new version rather than posting it yourself. There are several reasons for this:
- It's their song, so as a matter of etiquette, it should be their right to post the new version, or not, as they see fit and to make any additional changes they deem necessary before posting.
- Presumably, the original poster has the original individual tracks in high quality BR or WAV format, so they can make a proper remix. All you have is the MP3 file they posted which isn't suitable for making a high quality remix. For one thing, encoding to MP3 format should only be done once as the final step of preparing a song for posting. That's because MP3 encoding is lossy which means that it throws away some of the data to reduce the file size. If you re-encode an MP3 file, you'll be throwing away more data which will degrade the sound quality. It can also introduce unwanted artifacts. Also, when you add tracks to a song, it affects the relative balance of all the other tracks. So the only way to do a proper mix is to adjust the levels of each track individually. You can't do that if all you have is an MP3 mix of the original song and your new track. So export your new track in a lossless format such as WAV or FLAC and send it to the original poster so that they can mix it properly with their original tracks and make any other changes they want before they post it.
- When the original poster reposts the new version, it's obvious to everyone that they approve of your changes. But if you post the new version yourself, it isn't clear that you even asked permission unless you state it in the body of your message. And even then, it isn't clear whether the original poster is hearing your changes for the first time with your post or if you sent them a copy privately for their approval before posting. So it's best if you let the original poster repost the new version.
Of course, an exception to all this is songs that have been posted in the Collaborations board seeking additions. By posting a song in that board, the poster is giving his/her permission for anyone to add parts to it. Still, I think it would be a welcome courtesy to send a copy of your changes to the original poster before you post your version.
Finally, don't mistake the "Okay to Cover" icon in some people's signatures for "Okay to Reuse". The "Okay to Cover" icon means that you can make
your own cover version of their original song
from scratch. I doesn't mean that you can take their recording and add your own parts to it or reuse their recording in any way without first asking their permission.
Update 2022-11-19: Since permission is required before using other members' posted recordings in your own posts, we don't allow the use of deceased members' recordings since it is no longer possible to get their permission. There are two possible exceptions to this:
- If the deceased member's song was posted in the Collaborations (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?board=93.0) board or the Member-made backers (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?board=105.0) board, then you are free to use it in your own recordings since that was the poster's intention.
- If the deceased member has the "Okay to Cover" icon in their signature, you can post your own cover of any of their original songs. But you can't use the original poster's recording in your own recording. In other words, you can't just add your parts to their recording. You have to perform all of the parts yourself or in collaboration with another member.
I am quite sure this is aimed toward me as I have been guilty of some or all of the above in the past.... in fairness to me however way back when I came on the site i did ask about rules and I kind of remember the idea that their weren't any....anyway... part of being a good human is admitting mistakes and doing better going forward. So I will not touch anything anmore that is not "mine"....so apologies to any and all I offended.....
we are all different and I suppose that a song is kind of like one's baby...so that makes it precious... for me personally anyone can do anything they want to my songs...anytime they want... I see it as an honor to the song...but I realize not everyone does...
Quote from: StephenM on January 25, 2021, 11:15:51 AMI am quite sure this is aimed toward me
It applies to
everyone. All current members and future members. If it was meant only for you, I'd have sent you a PM instead of posting publicly. It's true that a recent post of yours prompted the admin team to discuss the matter, but it's not the first time a member has reposted another member's song without asking, so we decided it was time to post a topic about it.
Quote from: StephenM on January 25, 2021, 11:15:51 AMin fairness to me however way back when I came on the site i did ask about rules and I kind of remember the idea that their weren't any.
We don't have a lot of rules but there definitely are some. For instance, advertising is strictly prohibited. That has been a rule since the site started in 2007. But mostly, we expect members to behave reasonably and to follow the example of other members. That's why when anything happens that we think could be bad for the site, we try to nip it in the bud so that it doesn't set a bad example that other members might follow.
Quote from: StephenM on January 25, 2021, 11:15:51 AMSo I will not touch anything anmore that is not "mine"....so apologies to any and all I offended.....
Most of our members will welcome contributions to their music by other members as long as they're asked first. But nobody wants to be surprised by a repost of their song that they had no prior knowledge of. It's just a common courtesy to ask first. And, of course, there may be a few members who don't want any modifications to their songs. That's their right and you should just accept it graciously if your offer to contribute is rejected. Don't take it personally. Some people have a big emotional investment in their music and the thought of anyone else tampering with their songs is unacceptable to them. I think that's quite understandable and should be respected.
Edit.. does not apply.
Have a nice day.
Quote from: 64Guitars on January 25, 2021, 12:33:55 PMQuote from: StephenM on January 25, 2021, 11:15:51 AMI am quite sure this is aimed toward me
It applies to everyone. All current members and future members. If it was meant only for you, I'd have sent you a PM instead of posting publicly. It's true that a recent post of yours prompted the admin team to discuss the matter, but it's not the first time a member has reposted another member's song without asking, so we decided it was time to post a topic about it.
Quote from: StephenM on January 25, 2021, 11:15:51 AMin fairness to me however way back when I came on the site i did ask about rules and I kind of remember the idea that their weren't any.
We don't have a lot of rules but there definitely are some. For instance, advertising is strictly prohibited. That has been a rule since the site started in 2007. But mostly, we expect members to behave reasonably and to follow the example of other members. That's why when anything happens that we think could be bad for the site, we try to nip it in the bud so that it doesn't set a bad example that other members might follow.
Quote from: StephenM on January 25, 2021, 11:15:51 AMSo I will not touch anything anmore that is not "mine"....so apologies to any and all I offended.....
Most of our members will welcome contributions to their music by other members as long as they're asked first. But nobody wants to be surprised by a repost of their song that they had no prior knowledge of. It's just a common courtesy to ask first. And, of course, there may be a few members who don't want any modifications to their songs. That's their right and you should just accept it graciously if your offer to contribute is rejected. Don't take it personally. Some people have a big emotional investment in their music and the thought of anyone else tampering with their songs is unacceptable to them. I think that's quite understandable and should be respected.
understood!!!
I just stumbled across the following from 2011 which discusses this same topic, so I thought I'd add the link to this topic.
https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=12245.0 (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=12245.0)
I think this sort of approach (ettiquette, respect, asking first) is what makes this board so great. Glad to have you all here, and glad to have found this little outpost on the Interwebs.
Ah, yeah, I think I may have tread water here as a violator. But, please clarify the following circumstances:
I recently posted a track "Power Ballad" as a challenge for various artists to add their instruments/vocals/etc and we posted the results.
In one case, Mike Stewart participated (thankfully) and added terrific guitar solo, which we posted in his original mix from my original song posting. I ended up asking Mike Stewart to send me his guitar stem which I placed into my master of the original song (that I created), I added some more instruments and did a little audio work on his guitar stem. I then mastered the track and created mp3 with new title and posted giving full credit to Mike Stewart for his fantastic guitar line.
Whew.... does that seem to fit within the etiquette rules?
Thanks,
Mike Huntingford
Quote from: Mike Huntingford on March 03, 2021, 03:26:26 PMI recently posted a track "Power Ballad" as a challenge for various artists to add their instruments/vocals/etc and we posted the results.
Is this the song you posted in the Collaborations board? If so, then it's expected that other Songcrafters members could re-post the song their own additions to the track, because you've posted it for collaboration. As a courtesy, it would be nice for your collaborators to send you a copy of the song with their additions before they post the song. But ultimately, posting a song to Collaborations means you understand that other members will be adding to it and then re-posting it with their additions.
Quote from: Mike Huntingford on March 03, 2021, 03:26:26 PMIn one case, Mike Stewart participated (thankfully) and added terrific guitar solo, which we posted in his original mix from my original song posting. I ended up asking Mike Stewart to send me his guitar stem which I placed into my master of the original song (that I created), I added some more instruments and did a little audio work on his guitar stem. I then mastered the track and created mp3 with new title and posted giving full credit to Mike Stewart for his fantastic guitar line.
Whew.... does that seem to fit within the etiquette rules?
Yes, that's the entire point here - at the end of the day, it's still your song and you can continue to re-post it with additions from other members and/or yourself. Of course, it's an expected courtesy that you would credit the contributors after you re-post the song containing their additions.