So I admire songwriters who have mastered the craft a lot. I'll mention a few I think are masters, and who each have something that I will never have, but who are the reason I want to write songs:
- Paul Simon
- Bruce Cockburn
- Steve Earle
- Lucinda Williams
And hundreds more.
But the thing is you don't even start out as mediocre, at least if you're me, you don't. You start out just getting over the hump of getting over your own self criticism, your feelings that you can't do this and that you shouldn't bother. I am not trolling for sympathy here, as I'm 50 and I'm too old for that. But I am here on this forum because I wonder if there are people who feel the same way as me? That the process of getting better at this looks a lot like just doing it over and over again, and getting gradually, almost imperceptibly better.
I play guitar, and piano, and I sing, for my own amusement, and this year I've started writing songs, and writing lyrics.
Here's a sample of an instrumental bit which I built around a guitar loop, and added some "chiptunes" bleepy-bloopy synth bits to. It's in no way typical for me, because I tend to bounce all over the place. One day I want to make some moody treated piano thing, another day I want to make some rather loud rock guitar driven stuff.
This one does kind of show the typical way I like to add synth bass and synth treble bits on top of a mid-heavy guitar loop...
https://soundcloud.com/warren-postma/at-the-arcade-with-tim
My WEAKEST area so far is my lyric writing. I have high standards from the musicians I admire. Where does someone like Paul Simon get it from? "Losing love is like a Window in your Heart / Everybody Sees you're Blown Apart". I just feel that song, right down inside. It's brilliant.
Has anyone taken lessons on songwriting from a mentor? How did it go? Any thoughts on my random ramblings above are welcome.
Warren from British Columbia
Welcome Warren. I never feel like I'm good enough at this ever! I guess you've got to hold on to what makes you unique and focus on that. I go through phases, at the moment it's all very instinctual - I like writing in the dark because I'm just trying to connect with an energy and capture a moment. I press record and keep going until there's something there. I can't play an instrument and I can't even sing much but I can deliver a line convincingly and I'm trying to be more me.
I did a lyric writing course ages ago - whether it's still available I don't know and there are some good songwriting videos on Youtube, I also analysed quite a lot of songs when I first started, I think it's good to know as a background but not entirely necessary.
Sorry... this has turned into a bit of an epic!!!
Go with what Hilary's saying.
BTW - I LOVE what you're doing at the moment Hilary - so I'm not at all surprised to hear what you say your approach at the moment is: "I'm trying to be more me". It's working, you're saying stuff that speaks to people.
That's how it's always worked for me. I'm 57 now, and I've been writing songs since I was 14. I actually picked up a guitar so I could accompany my voice, and for some reason I went into it with the idea that you're meant to be able to write your own songs... so that's what I did. My attitude has always been "so-and-so is human, I'm human, he/she can do it, I ought to be able to do it too..."
Before I got the guitar, I used to make up verses to songs I liked while I was playing with my toy soldiers. Remember "Billy Don't Be A Hero"? I sang that non-stop for hours one morning, making up stories of the soldiers coming up off the beach in my "d-day landing" scenario spread all over the living room... By the end it had a new tune and hundreds of verses. But I was just playing. The only reason I remember this is because my Nan (whose house I was in) made such a big thing of it to my Mum after she'd spent the morning cooking and listening to me.
Basically, I get moved by other people's songs (and books, and films, and paintings), sometimes very moved. And I want to create stuff that moves me like that. When I was younger, I used to regularly think "I want to hear a song, but it doesn't exist yet" so I'd write it. I don't tend to do that now, I just "do what I do" when the mood takes me.
I've always written about something that affects me. Sometimes it's something autobiographical, about me and my own experience, sometimes it's external to me. Sometimes, often actually, I'm actually writing to someone, a secret message that they may or may not hear or understand. But whatever form it is, it's always something that moves me in some way.
A few song posts back, I recorded and posted a version of the second song I ever wrote (Please Excuse Those Words That I Said) I'll use that as an example because I'm not at all concerned now about being open about how much of it is me or not. It was 1978, I was 15, songwriter-wise I was into The Beatles and (more so) the 60s version of The Bee Gees. I was broken-hearted because of meeting this 14 year-old girl on holiday and then she had to go back to the States. It was actually a requited-love: we got separated just as it dawned on both of us that "oh wow! this is what it's like!!". But for song purposes back then, I treated it as an unrequited-love. It contains a mixture of absolute truth about me and my feelings and some of what happened, and a whole bunch of "poetic license" - in other words, it's padded lyrically with whatever it took to fit it in somehow, make it rhyme, and to finish it. I didn't know what I was doing, I just squeezed it out as best I could. In fact, that's all I ever do.
Like Hilary says - go for being more "you". Be instinctive. Don't be afraid of putting something of yourself into what you create, it seems to make the created thing better.
Also, like you say - do a lot of it. Some people argue that if you write a song a day then you'll get 20-30 crap ones and a hit. I'm not sure I agree, but I do know that if you are "in practice" at completing lines and ideas, then it's a LOT easier when the idea is a good one. If you haven't written for months and you get a fantastic idea, the odds are you won't be able to finish it or finish it as well as you could have if you'd been in practice.
Also, this might sound odd at first, but "get arrogant" that what you have to say is worth hearing. That's the bit Paul Simon has that makes him different from those ordinary mortals who don't write songs... Whether we like his stuff or not, whether we rate him higher or lower than another songwriter, is all a matter of personal taste.
But the thing that Paul Simon has over you right at the moment is the "arrogance" to think that others might want to hear the "Paul Simon take" on a particular subject/emotion. I have the "arrogance" to think that folks might want to hear the "Andrew Russe take" on a particular subject/emotion. What we both have (hopefully) is the humility to accept that some folks will actively reject our take on it. And, after that, the confidence to bounce back from the rejection to accept that it's ok, because it's their choice and, besides, someone else has already liked it anyway... so, "I'm still ok".
All people that have become songwriters had to have woken up one day and gone, for some reason, "hey! you know what, I can write some songs so that other people can hear them" ... After that when you've actually written one, it always seems really presumptuous to say "er, I got a song I wrote, would you like to hear it?" ... that NEVER goes away... or, at least, not in my experience. And then the self-critic inside is always ready to take over, condemn us, and we stop because we think everything we've made is rubbish...
So yeah, don't actually be arrogant, but do tell yourself "I'm worth listening to". Start assuming that everything you think is finished is ready for others to hear. They can make their own mind up, you don't have to deprive them of the choice before they've even heard it! :) :) :)
One other thing, I firmly believe a song isn't finished until it's in the listener's head. Unlike a painting, which I also do sometimes, the listener finishes a song for you, you will NEVER hear your song completed, only the listener does - and it's slightly different for each listener, sometimes even each listen.
With a painting, there it is on the wall, we can all see it and react to it.
Songs are different beasts. They are amazing magical triggers and manipulators of emotion and intellect inside us. And their very substance changes with the life-experiences and moods that the listener brings.
You can spend as much effort as you want trying to get the clever, concise, whatever, lyric... and then a listener can quite legitimately hear a completely different story - you wrote sad, they hear happy and hopeful, etc, etc. So don't get TOO stressed over getting it "right" - if it's finished and has no howling clunkers that trip the listener up and make him or her pause, then it's often right enough.
AND, if a listener does "misinterpret" your song - NEVER EVER correct them... If you do, you make the song smaller for them. They liked it for one reason, and you've taken that reason away and also proved to them that, in their mind, you didn't write it clearly enough in the first place (I learnt this at a Jethro Tull gig when Ian Anderson insisted on correcting the bassist's interpretation of one of the songs on the new album at the time... I suspect that everyone in the audience who knew the song thought the same as me... "oh" ... and then he repeats it in the tour program! Way to kill a song, Ian!)
Sorry, I've been waffling... to finish, here's my take on external resources/help, what you actually asked(!):
Mentors: On songwriting, I've only ever found one. I was friends with a music teacher years ago (I was bass in a church worship band, he was one of the pianists). He was moved, by something I did when playing the bass or improvising a vocal, to change something in one of his songs. That possibly unlocked the ability to critique each other's stuff. He had far more music theory than I did at the time. But I was further ahead than him on other stuff such as performance. I could play him a song and he'd go "nice, but it's all a bit same-y, why don't you put the middle 8 in a different key... no, an unrelated key, no modulation, just plonk and then plonk back after it, no warning, you'll just have to learn to pitch it ok in the vocal..." - he was SO right.
I have no idea how you'd find such a person. For me it would need to be someone you can spend time with and learn to trust. Especially lyrics... Songwriting's such a personal thing.
Courses: I've never been on one myself. A good one would be VERY useful if you're in the right place for it. For me, the "right place" is knowing BOTH of the following: A) really it's about self-expression and therefore trust your own instincts, don't do/change something just cos someone else says so, and B) there are a lot of established tricks/rules/conventions, those are good too, it's worth hearing the established wisdom and giving it a go sometimes.
I did consider a residential songwriting weekend a year or two ago (with Dean Friedman, remember "Lucky Stars"?) we were still wondering when this covid stuff came along... who knows, maybe if we all live to tell the tale? I still might be tempted.
I have run a songwriting workshop for 14-18 year-olds at a music camp in the late 90s. I did it with my bassist at the time. That was an eye-opener. Turned out the bass-player understood more than he'd been letting on, even to himself... and the eager teenagers proved to us how easy it was to write songs and then perform them a day or so later... actually, that was stunning, I'd forgotten that.
Books: I have some books about songwriting that helped me a few years ago when I started making music again. They helped me improve and get going again faster. But again, you need to be in the right place - aware that it's you and your stuff, but that other folks have some good suggestions too.
Actually, for me, for lyrics, a book is probably the best way - I can ignore it or use it!
The impression I got was that I accepted the advice if it was speaking about an area where I already had experience of getting stuck. I also accepted advice on obvious things that I'd never even considered (eg when you've finished, find every occurence of the word "just"...wtf, how many?! Remove them all LOL). But any advice that involved a bunch of effort (practice) for unknown return of dubious value (to me)... er... the book's still on the shelf if I ever need it!!
Films: Now don't laugh at this, this is possibly the most important thing in this post... NO! Seriously, I mean it... There's a romcom called "Music and Lyrics" starring Hugh Grant and Drew Barrymore.
For a lesson in songwriting it is utterly utterly BRILLIANT. My wife bought the dvd years ago having seen it in the cinema. I thought YUKK!!! But I was SO wrong. It's very entertaining anyway, but the more I watch it, the more I realise how much songwriting wisdom there is in the story of "Way Back Into Love" (which is a gorgeous GORGEOUS song, possibly one of my favourites).
Music and Lyrics is on Netflix. There are some good documentaries about artists too - Ian Drury, Lady Gaga 5fr 2, and Taylor Swift - they all show their songwriting processes - Ian Drury had a book of phrases and ideas that came to him which I've been doing "share a breath" in Stronger - I've got one that isn't finished yet with "pussyfooting around".
Here are a few thoughts to start.
Mentors: The nice young lady who leads our local NSAI song circle is a mentor, but she probably doesn't know it. She's someone that I can bounce ideas off of. If I share a song she'll bring up what she thinks about it in a positive light. She'll be critical but she will never be demeaning. She'll say things like, 'If you want to.... then I would...." For instance, 'If you want to pitch this song then I would probably change structure so it is more radio friendly. And I would get to the chorus more quickly. I would try to find a way to say this that's new, unique or at least doesn't use the same cliche we've all used many times."
Books: I've read many books. I have a few that I've never gotten around to reading. They can be awesome.
Videos: Tons of good ones. Tons of bad ones, too.
Writing lots of songs: I also write quite a few songs a year. So the lesson is. Just writing songs, even lots of songs, by itself won't make you a great songwriter. You will improve (at least a little), but (as with most things in life) you get out what you put in. So the key is (1) writing lots of songs WHILE experimenting, learning, trying things out, testing things, implementing things you've watched or read. The more you push the boundaries the better. You literally need to try new things. A lot.
(2) Give yourself restrictions. Start a song with the bass line. If you normally write music and then fit words to it then start with a lyric and put it to music. (Or vice versa.) Write a melody using only three notes. Write a melody that uses at least two passing tones or borrowed notes (outside the scale.) Find a painting and write a song that makes you feel the same as the painting. Use an instrument you've never played before. Use an instrument in a way it was not intended to be used. Try a new structure (start with a chorus etc.,)
(3) Collaborate.. a lot. The more you write with others the more you learn. Everyone is unique and has their own perspective. Borrow theirs.
(4) Don't be afraid to suck. Give yourself permission to suck. Literally give yourself the freedom to write a bad song. Sometimes we learn more from writing a bad one than a good one. With a good one you end up chasing your tail trying to do it again. With a bad one you can learn from it. As an exercise, take a bad song (yours or someone else's) and see if you can make it better. Figure out what it is about the song that you don't like and change it. This can be wonderfully enlightening and it can also be pretty gut wrenching (especially if you use your own songs.)
(5) Finish what you start. You ever have that idea and jot it down or record a few seconds of it only to come back later and wonder what you were so excited about? Finish what you start. At least get a working version of it that you can work on later. If you don't you just might lose that spark of inspiration. This is especially true about bad songs. FINISH IT. You don't have to share if you don't want to.
(6) "You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club." - Jack London Find a writing spot. Find a writing time. Be consistent, as consistent as you can. Make it a habit. Train yourself to open the spigot with less effort. You do this by being nice to yourself. Treat yourself as if you were someone you had to take care of. That means being stern sometimes. Being loving sometimes. But always be supportive.
Wow this is great! SO Much to digest.
First, the thought of being more myself, that's exactly it.
Secondly:
> AND, if a listener does "misinterpret" your song - NEVER EVER correct them...
Exactly. One of the things that I love for example in U2's songs is that I can put myself into the song. There is space for that.
I read a book about Andrei Rublev, a writer (what they call them instead of painters) of Icons, and it said that in one of his most important works, the subject of which was the Trinity, a theological and mystical part of many parts of the Christian tradition, there was an empty space, represented as a hole in the side of a table which might be said to be "room for us".
I like the idea that a great song makes room for us. Leonard Cohen left a little space in his work. So did Tom Petty. So does Bruce Springsteen.
So shall I.
Thanks everyone. There's enough here to think about and mull for days.
I think the best thing about this site is everyone is on here to be a part of the community, listening, commenting and sharing music and ideas. It's not like most other sites that a lot will try and fool you into thinking you can make it big by signing up. Most of these sites don't have anything like the friendly atmosphere that you get here. It's just full of people thinking or hoping to become famous. Nothing really wrong with that per se but it's nice to really give people some time along the way.
The cool thing here too is that nobody is too judgemental. We are all on different musical journeys and getting enjoyment out of sharing our songs and giving and receiving feedback. How proficient somebody is is kind of not the point to a degree, although if you listen to a selection of songs (I guess you must have already) it's obvious there is a ton of talent on here. In fact for me I can honestly say it is the number one place on the web for musical creativity. Nobody is constrained by obligations to sound like this or that. We wake up in the morning and simply just put our ideas out there in so far as each of us is comfortable doing.
Speaking for myself I have no idea how good or bad I am at writing songs. It is too subjective. I mean in comparision to some my efforts are probably not very good at all, but sometimes I am happy with the results. But if you think about the true meaning and spirit of "music" I think it is supposed to be inclusive, so the act of getting something down on the page and putting it out there has to be commended.
Through the years I suppose most of us must get better and learn stuff along the way. I am self taught, have zero musical training and that's not going to change now. I think/hope I have a good ear and enjoy tinkering around with songs. Sometimes I think a lack of being schooled formally can be an advantage as really you end up experimenting almost all of the time as you have no embedded reference points that you might be tempted to fall back on, but I also admit this could be wishful thinking on my part!
But I guess my main point is don't be shy, don't talk yourself out of putting a song out there if you think it's not perfect. We are not looking for perfection, just to hear what ideas are going on in other songcrafters heads!
Hey... that could be one of my longest posts... hope it's not too off topic!!
Amen to everything you say, Mike!
Unfortunately due to the actual situation and my job, I haven't been able to put online anything new, and honestly I don't know if and when I will be able again...hopefully with the end of this nightmare, that is more and more scary...but I come here everyday to listen to what's new, and this helps me a lot!
Alfredo
I can't say I'm an expert in anything but if anyone wants to send me any songs I am happy to listen to bounce ideas off.
I just watching Music and Lyrics :)
Yeah. The thing is I'm not looking to build a giant audience. But I do think that what this site does is exactly what I want to do: I want to hear other people's songs and I want to share some of mine.
I hope that if I offer a critique it's taken as a helpfully meant thing, as I don't mean to say anything I say is especially objective or valid. For example, I listened to a song posted yesterday and said "I like everything except the various percussion hits in here". I thought, that's what I would like to hear from other people; "I liked your lyrics, but your vocals were off, maybe re-record that".
Even if it sounds harsh I would be HAPPY to hear someone say, "you really do need to breathe more when you sing", and stuff like that.
Or, you repeated that guitar lick 80 times, maybe vary that up.
That kind of gentle and kindly meant critique is EXACTLY what I hope we can do for each other.
I am also open to attempting collaborations with folks.
We miss you Alfredo - it's heartbreaking to think of you in the thick of all this madness.
Stay safe and I look forward to one day hearing you make music again xx
Jacob Collier has a lot of really good songwriting videos on Youtube - he is an unbelievable talent. This is a cover, he's absolutely crushing Jamie Cullen here :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X8vyeZgVVQ
Quote from: Hilary on November 04, 2020, 10:14:54 AMJacob Collier has a lot of really good songwriting videos on Youtube - he is an unbelievable talent. This is a cover, he's absolutely crushing Jamie Cullen here :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X8vyeZgVVQ
Whoa, that's cool. But I have to admit I much prefer Jamie Cullum's voice/delivery!
But the tinkling on the ivories... flippin flip! He'll be quite good one day if he keeps practising! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Actually, I just realised, I have Jamie Cullum's first album somewhere, I think ... my sister bought it for me years ago, only listened to it once - I'll have to dig it out on the strength of watching that.
I'm dying to know, what did you make of Music and Lyrics? First few times I watched it I was just watching it as a film that Mrs R likes and luckily I do too... but then I realised the musical and song-writing references weren't embarrassing me... (and, possibly more embarrassing to admit, they weren't causing me to "explain" to Mrs R what was wrong in the film!!) ... and then I realised some of the interplay in the writing sessions is spot on... and then when I was writing my essay yesterday, I suddenly realised that M&L, if you take it seriously and believe it, does offer some insights on the song-writing process...
Please, please, please listen to some of Jacob Collier's stuff - he walks on water!
M&L - I liked it. I thought Hugh Grant was really funny in it (as the hasbeen putting out his back with the hip thrusts and the 80s band throwbacks) - on the songwriting front - OMG I would love to get in a room with someone (so to speak) and do some songwriting. There was emphasis on the strength/choice of words and a bit about song composition (starting on the minor 3rd etc) and also how a good/bad producer can totally change the essence of a song. Oh and also how the subconscious mind plays its part (the absent mindedly good lyrics she says when watering the plants).
Your Dean Friedman course sounds very cool!
But I have to admit I much prefer Jamie Cullum's voice/delivery!
Jamie has chosen the key not Jacob.
Oh and dig deep to write the 3rd verse ;)
I just listened to your soundcloud video arcade song.... to quote you
"Saturday, some time in the 1980s, in London Ontario Canada. An Arcade on Dundas Street, a Dairy Queen, and the London Public library, Chicken Noodle Soup, and Gummy Bears, and Best Friends.
Coin up. Game on."
love your sentiment to a happy time, a young time, of your life that your song creation reminds you of....that is a great reason to write something....personally I was hoping I could download it because i like listening to stuff like this off line...and in a case like yours where it is very short i would make a loop of it and let it rip for like 5 minutes... I am a runner and I put stuff like this on my run playlist....i zone out to it while I hit for the endorphine buzz......
Years and years ago i started playing guitar and then bass... got in a band and we wrote some stuff but most of the success I had was doing cover music from the 70's and 80s....in bars....while people were drinking and they just wanted to hear some good Rock and Roll...and that was alot of fun and I had about a 3 year window that we were one of the better bands in Charleston, SC....(around 1986-89)....and we got some big gigs some other bands that had been around longer asked us how we were doing it... and frankly it was mostly because we played the songs well and we had a hot female voacalist that kicked butt....
I totally got away from playing any music from around 1991 until about 2009....I didn't think about it....didn't know that I even missed it...and then some guys moved into my circle of friendships and we got talking and next thing i knew I was playing bass with them....alot...and I really got better and better on the bass.... and then about 5 years ago I bought another Les Paul (this one was an epiphone)..... and my guitar playing really took off and I think it was because of the bass....I really became a lead guitar player playing bass....
and then I really wanted to write some songs...and I started and it took me a while to take myself at all seriously about it... I was kind of embarassed...but i also liked it and really wanted to do it...and I just decided that even if I was the only one who liked it that would be enough reason to do it... and then I got thinking that someone, somewhere would like my music if I could just connect with them.... So I have now had over 1400 song plays on reverbnation....lol.... and really the only thing I care about is if 1 person actually likes my music it makes it all worth while....but really for me to do it because i like to is reason enough.... I am 60 something now.... and I also play drums and harmonica....and i do those too just because i like to....and I am getting better at them....
people will listen to you on SC especially when you take the time to listen to them.....play on....
Andrew, you are full of great stuff and you take the time to explain so well.... and some of what you said about yourself I have figured out about you a little from hearing some of your songs....and you have alot of great technical knowledge on recording as well...I am going to go and try to find that song you wrote when you were 15....should be great... I have really taken to heart some of what you shared on eq on vocals and bottom end.... and just getting me touching those things is a huge step of success... I think one of the things I love the most about SC is alot of folks on here are totally into creative stuff...different stuff... and yet also appreciate kind of same old same old.... and I have really posted a few things that I never would have if I didn't feel "safe" doing so on here....plus people will actually interact with you on SC which i really like...
Quote from: Hilary on November 03, 2020, 10:11:32 AMMusic and Lyrics is on Netflix. There are some good documentaries about artists too - Ian Drury, Lady Gaga 5fr 2, and Taylor Swift - they all show their songwriting processes - Ian Drury had a book of phrases and ideas that came to him which I've been doing "share a breath" in Stronger - I've got one that isn't finished yet with "pussyfooting around".
and some people just really have it....it is easy....for them...that is true about all sorts of things....but I have found it to be hard but that is ok and I can get better at it....
Quote from: alfstone on November 03, 2020, 12:53:06 PMAmen to everything you say, Mike!
Unfortunately due to the actual situation and my job, I haven't been able to put online anything new, and honestly I don't know if and when I will be able again...hopefully with the end of this nightmare, that is more and more scary...but I come here everyday to listen to what's new, and this helps me a lot!
Alfredo
Thank you for your service to humaity and I hope and pray you stay well.....and yes...looking forward to hearing your music when you can return to writing....
Quote from: StephenM on November 04, 2020, 05:36:30 PMQuote from: Hilary on November 03, 2020, 10:11:32 AMMusic and Lyrics is on Netflix. There are some good documentaries about artists too - Ian Drury, Lady Gaga 5fr 2, and Taylor Swift - they all show their songwriting processes - Ian Drury had a book of phrases and ideas that came to him which I've been doing "share a breath" in Stronger - I've got one that isn't finished yet with "pussyfooting around".
and some people just really have it....it is easy....for them...that is true about all sorts of things....but I have found it to be hard but that is ok and I can get better at it....
Sometimes I find it really easy, sometimes I find it really hard.
Have Something to SayFor lyrics, I really think you need something to say. Sometimes you start with that, sometimes you stumble on it when trying to write, other times you end up with "why am I so shit at this?".
I believe it's all because you need something to say before you can start using your own personal brand of eloquence and phrasing to good effect.
The "book of phrases and ideas" helps in that you've noted that there's something you wanted to say but don't have time to do so right now.
When you go through it later, hopefully there'll be something that tweaks you into "hey, yeah, I wanted to explore that, and actually... I still do!!".
Also, don't be afraid of writing "this is crap" next to an idea - Six months later even THAT can spark something. Or if you get a new half idea, but it's not moving you enough to write something, DO NOT FORGET TO WRITE THE HALF IDEA DOWN BEFORE YOU MOVE ON TO AN ANOTHER OLD IDEA YOU DO WANT USE!
Also, for the same reason, never throw anything away. I talk about "the shoebox", it's not really a shoebox, or even one container. It used to be a green ringbinder back in 1979 when I was in the 6th form and people took the piss out of me... I only had something like 20 songs so they fitted. They were all handwritten, and at the back was the half-finished songs.
When that fell apart, I started on the loose leaf folders or "document wallets". And piles and piles of A4 paper with finished and half-finished stuff on. All carried around in supermarket carrier-bags!
When I gave up music for few years, I nearly burned the bags and the guitars - I had to get away from it all. But instead I just threw them all in the loft.
Now, I have a number of those box-files with the stuff crammed in higgledy-piggledy. When I say the shoebox I mean this lot. From sometime in the early 90s (before the hiatus) I have a handwritten master list of songs by year. Everything on that list is carefully written out on paper somewhere in one of the boxes. That's how I identified that I want to record nearly everything from 1994. Also in there will be the original sheets I used when I was writing a song, if I kept them. Also in there are all the half finished and scribbled ideas. I can sing and play nearly all of it. I also have a number of note books and abandoned books of "phrases and ideas".
ALL of this is potential source material. It helps for both songwriting and for getting recording going again after a pause.
I can suffer two major failures in confidence:
- "I can't sing or play anymore!" - every take I try on the recording machine is shit
- "I can't write lyrics/songs for toffee!!" - everything I try to write is trite bollocks
One of the fixes is to listen to my recordings late at night on headphones after Mrs R has gone to bed... I start off feeling sorry for myself and my lost talent... But I soon discover I like listening to my own recordings as much as say ELO, or Led Zeppelin, or Rory Gallagher, or Queen, or... etc... All my heroes...
Remember how I said further up the thread "get arrogant" - that's what I mean, start appreciating yourself. And be honest with yourself, non of this humility-crap when you're alone in the dark and no-one else is watching or listening. You
must have loved what you were doing, otherwise you wouldn't have made the effort... Look at what you've done and try to see/hear it through our (ie someone else's) eyes/ears... WE love what you do, whether you're starting out or have been doing it for years... Other people love it, so start loving it yourself.
Depending on how glass-half-full or -empty I feel after that, it can lead to "I used to be SO good at writing lyrics when I was younger :(" ... BUT, I've done this self-appreciation thing enough times now to know that I can still write reasonably good lyrics...
Anyways, the other fix for me is to get the shoebox out, an acoustic guitar, and a capo out on a Saturday afternoon and sing. Because, at heart, I'm a performer as well as a songwriter, I need an audience... so I sing to Mrs R for 2, 3, 4 hours while she's reading or doing a jigsaw or whatever.
What that does is get me back in practice (voice and fingers, and "performance", which results in better takes if I've "remembered" how to perform), and helps to raise my confidence. It also gets me re-arranging the "list of songs to record next". Mrs R often goes "you've got to record that one" on something I'd not considered before.
AND, from a songwriting point of view, invariably, the very next day, I have something to say, and I end up writing a new song instead :)
Have your lyric forming brain in practiceI mentioned earlier about "your own personal brand of eloquence and phrasing" - that is what makes your lyric "voice" different from someone else's. I say things my way, you say things your way, etc. Before you even consider lyrics, we all know of stuff we like, and we naturally lift that vocabulary and construction and add it to our own store of words and phrases. So we're continually expanding the way we like to express ideas. But sometimes we feel more eloquent than others, especially as we get older... I have days when I struggle to know the next word when I'm having a conversation, especially if I'm tired or have been writing a lot (I mean like this, or work, not music).
For lyrics, as well as having something to say, you need that part of your brain up and running and ready to rock. Or sometimes, relaxed and carefree enough? However you want to look at it, I guess...
Basically, though, if you haven't used it for lyrics a while - which is a nicely constrained form of expression - then the engine might be a bit rusty, and you won't be as eloquent as you could be.
I have some tricks I use.
The first is... the approach... I always approach it as a game. I like twisting words and meaning, I get a big kick out of it. I like saying one thing to achieve the opposite in the listener's head. I like playing with words and emotions. It gets me in trouble in everyday conversations or on forums sometimes.
You don't have to be as contrary as that, that's just me (although, by the way, I recognise this trait in certain well-hated politicians at the moment, it's possibly not the best talent to have or use if you want to be a politician in the modern world!! ;D ;D ;D).
But it is worth (if you don't already) learning to
enjoy playing with words, making them do what you want them to do. If that feels difficult or a chore, then lyrics will always come harder.
The second trick is just keeping in practice. You can tell when I'm contented, I sing a running commentary of what I'm doing. I have a standard one that starts with "Slavin, slavin, slavin..." (when I'm cooking and she's on the sofa or whatever) ... I will "lyricise" anything that's going on, just to see if I can fit it (make it rhyme and scan). Mrs R thinks I'm crazy but kind of likes it now. I have even been known to get a song idea ("something to say") out of this... but often it's just profanities and swearing or turning crap things into jokes so I can swallow them a little better.
Sometimes I make up the tune, sometimes I use an existing one - eg "Slavin" is always to the tune of Rawhide, initially. The tune to I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles gets used a lot. Roll out the Barrel. Queen songs get used a lot, etc, etc. Anything goes really. Years ago, on a tour, our band song was "Bollocks" sung to the tune of Amazing Grace... The bassist and I (the vocalists) loved it... we came up with it (big achievement, I know!) in the van on the first day as we were stuck in a queue to get to and past Stonehenge (that was the days of "Travellers" in the UK, and we had to get to the West Country via the A303 on the same bluddy day as all the "peaceful"
wankers idiots who wanted to confront the police at Stonehenge ... that year we decided it was best NOT to stop at Stonehenge for our sarnies!! ;D ;D). The drummer liked the song for the two hours we were in the traffic jam - I think it came from him exclaiming "bollocks!" when something happened (he probably stalled the van when the traffic started moving!), the bassist and I just started singing it. But then the drummer found it got rather old rather quickly... so we sang it to him a lot over the course of the next week. We made up a bunch of other songs too, luckily none of them were as catchy as "Bollocks" so I don't remember them...
Sorry, I digress, er... oh... that's probably enough!
- Have something to say
- Be in practice for "lyricising" what you want to say (sing amusing rubbish at your significant-other)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
This thread is very interesting - I'm used to improvising it's somerhing I'm naturally good at and have a lot of experience doing in front of an audience - so I would think about the placement of words and the power of those words and about cutting out anything superfluous to get as quickly as possible to the point (this holds me back in writing songs). I guess I like improvising songs because I'm flexing the muscle just in case I need it again!
Nothing is easy - I sat with Bacon and Jam for weeks- picking it up, humming along, trying different ideas but persistence won (or not depending on your view of my L&M) the minute I hit on Bacon and & Jam as an idea (that's to Ken's superb track).
I'd say send me the lyrics if you are struggling but what makes them special is you.
I never write anything personal I'm way too guarded- so don't think you have to write about what you know - imagine a scenario that's playing out on a screen in front of you - who's in it - what are they saying/ feeling etc. It doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't even have to rhyme, it doesn't have to do anything but be your expression.
Interesting thread. Like most, if not all musicians - self doubt is a fact of life. The main reason that people become great musicians is as a result of that doubt, and wanting to be better. In my experience, people who are totally self confident are generally no where near as good as they think they are, and often quite shit. Just look at the delusional on Britain's Got Talent!
So, how to progress. This is what I do.
Lyrics I write fast as I can, and avoid simple rhymes - I go for roughly sounding similar, thats normally better for me. Complex words are your friend :-) Most of my lyrics are done and dusted in 5 minutes - however they may sound like that is the case :-) Sometimes the lyrics change during the recording as I can't read my own writing!
For me, I produce the music first. The music then drives the name, and the name drives the lyric. That's just they way it works for me.
Don't over-think anything. Let it flow. You will get caught up in the heat of the moment.
Accept the 1 in 10 rule. You are working for the 1. If the other 9 are not so great, accept it, its part of the process and carry on.
When its done, its done. Leave it be. It will be what it will be, the next one will be better.
I don't like hearing myself speak or sing. So I try not to sound like me. That works for me.
I always tell myself its a rough draft, and I will fix the problems when I do it "properly" - which of course I never do.
Listen to you work after a long period (six months) - you normally think its better than you did at the time.
A recording engineer told me once that everyone can sing, however it all depends on the attitude. Even if you have got the strongest voice, add plenty of attitude, you will have a winner. Sing like you mean it. I would also add, play like you mean it as well. Its generally uncomfortable listening to someone that is timid.
I could go on, but that's my starter for 10. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, or any approach is better than the other - each of us have our own methods. It all depends if it works for you, and that you will discover by doing more ....
B.
It can't compare to the others' great wisdom in this thread, but I'll throw in my two cents. I've come to a recent realization in my songwriting block that's lasted the last 20 years. I knew at a young age that music and songwriting would be a part of my life. I had a band in my teens and found some success writing some songs...we recorded an entire album of original material. I thought then that I'd have an extensive catalog of original material at this point in my life, but since then...I've "finished" only a couple songs. I'm too much of a perfectionist- I want every little thing to be just perfect. The lyrics, the melodies, the harmonies, the entire production, etc. Because of this, I've had tons of great ideas just fizzle away to nothing - and have nothing to show for it. Lately I'm telling myself to just finish a damn song and move on to the next one. It's never going to perfect & maybe that's what is perfect about it. At least you'll have something to share with the world. I'm finding a great deal of truth in the subject line of this thread. Doing a lot of it & realizing they might not all be effing Yesterday by the Beatles or some shit - but surely they can't all suck!
I wish you good luck!
Thanks StephenM for listening. I'll upload that Gummy Bears track so you can download it.