Here's a question aimed primarily at the guitarists on the site...
Do you actually like the way you play?
What I mean is this - when you listen back to your riffing/soloing can you do so without cringing? I'll be honest, I can't listen to myself at all because I REALLY don't like how I sound. I think of myself as a "Jack of all trades & master of none"... I can do the odd shred/speed type thing but there are 12yr olds on YouTube who can play circles around me in that style. I have a reasonable touch with blues, but then I listen to SRV or Joe Bonamassa & realise I don't have the depth or vocabulary that those guys do. I've got the theory knowledge & understand jazz, but I put a Kenny Burrell album on and it just flows out of him so fluently, like water out of a tap - with him you don't get the sense of "diminished scale resolving to major 3rd of tonic chord... etc etc..." that I hear in my own playing. With REAL jazz musicians it just sounds effortless... as it does with the blues & rock chaps. And that's what I feel I lack in my own playing. Basically I think my playing (especially my soloing) always sounds contrived in some way.
Is this normal... do you chaps feel the same way about your own playing & I'm making something out of nothing? I feel almost like I can do a good impersonation of just about any style, but that's about as far as it goes. As you can probably tell, this is weighing a bit heavily on me at the moment so apologies for the self-centred introspection.
I certainly can't disagree about your playing more. I find your amazing skills only amplified by your instinct and soul. I think it common for musicians to never feel like they are close to the level of idols. I know my limitations in guitar playing and I don't strive to hard to pass them. I do get better but it's just a natural progression from playing as much as I do.
I personally think my strengths lie in songwriting and being able to make songs with limited skill and talent. I'm also good at buying gear. I doubt I'll ever be the songwriter I think Elvis Costello is and I probably won't ever have as much gear as Guitar Center ( insert any big chain music outlet) but I'm going to enjoy trying.
It saddens me that you would be insecure at all about your playing, as a teacher you know that perfection is never actually achieved. We are so inamored by our heroes that it magnifies their talent sometimes, not to diminish it but I can only imagine each of our heroes has the same feelings about their heroes.
You have a true gift and talent brother, enjoy using it as much as you can!
Rock on!
Isn't the nature of the artist to be insecure? By the time I was 14 or so, I was listening to a steady diet of Hendrix, McLaughlin, Steve Howe, Al DiMeola, Paco DeLucia, Chet Atkins, Danny Gatton, Bill Connors, Allan Holdsworth, Ray Gomez, Steve Morse, John Abercrombie, and I was just getting into guys like Pat Martino and Joe Pass. Of course I thought I sucked comparatively because I did and still do.
Having said this, I have made some peace with my music and guitar playing over the last three or so years. I can't really explain the switch except to say there are times now and again when I appreciate what I have to say musically.
But if I sat down with a decent jazz guitarist tomorrow, I'm sure I would say I suck once again.
Aw hell, where's my Glenfiddich?
Blooby
"Do you actually like the way you play?"
Yes... I have done since the very first chord held down, in tune, without buzzing, nearly forty years ago...
I've always been amazed at what comes out and I've been going "wow woww WOOWWW! Listen to this!! Look at wot I can do!!!!" ever since I was able to change chord (not quite in time) and groan over it... (even when, in hindsight, I invariably ended up realising I was being somewhat audacious to imagine anyone else would think it was any good at the time - BUT, here's the thing: THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD, the older me might not, listening back, but they did - they applauded, even the other guitarists who were far better, and who knew they were, they applauded too because they'd all gone through the same stuff as me a couple months/years earlier and they knew what it took to do it)
I realise this is personal to me, and others seem to look at it differently, but I've always seen it like this:
If I didn't like how I play, how on earth would I have got any better? I'd have stopped. As it is, I've always loved the noises it allows me to make, and when I hear a new noise (not so often now) I'm all "ooooh! How do you do that?"I wish I could give everyone who plays, or does anything creative, that same "oh wow" attitude I seem to have had for years and years.
Mr Hook said it perfect, can't say it better than this:
Quote from: Hook on September 26, 2016, 04:27:48 PM...You have a true gift and talent brother, enjoy using it as much as you can!
Rock on!
It applies to everyone I've heard on this site, no matter how far along the musical road they are at the moment.
Blooby did make me feel inadequate, though:
Quote from: Blooby on September 26, 2016, 07:03:35 PMBy the time I was 14 or so, I was listening to a steady diet of Hendrix, McLaughlin, Steve Howe, Al DiMeola, Paco DeLucia, Chet Atkins, Danny Gatton, Bill Connors, Allan Holdsworth, Ray Gomez, Steve Morse, John Abercrombie, and I was just getting into guys like Pat Martino and Joe Pass.
OH SH1T!!! You mean there was homework?!!
:D :D :D
Everybody has a talent and that talent is unique to themselves,it is simply being yourself and whatever you say,do or play is original.
Unfortunately musicians can be fragile in the way they perceive themselves and that's when the negative vibes creep in and actually get into the writing or creative process.
Negativity is nothing new and unfortunately not just related to musicians.
Negativity is a virus that can spread throughout the planet from person to person.
My take on life is turn every negative into a positive,one chord can say more than a hundred notes in a song,one positive sentence can make a persons day and spread like the sunshine and fade out the darkness.
Your talent is you,your music is you and your playing is you,it's all unique.
Sing or play from your heart ,none of us gets out of here alive as someone recently said so do the things you want and use your time positively ,that means don't bother about trivial things like your playing and just play :D ;D
The clocks ticking,time for another song to be born into this mad world,every guitarist should cherish the gift they have no matter how complex or minimal your technique is.
Keep rocking johnny and do what you do because it's very special I can assure you.
When you play a lead I know it's you,,,,,that is unique in its self.
I was going to reply to this yesterday, but i really didn't know what to say. Now I think I know what i want to say.
I think Johnny, as others have said and which is obvious. You are a brilliant player, bags of talent and I wish I was half the player you are. But on to the dilemma.
I think you have all the theory now as well as the skills to implement some serious shit on the guitar which is brilliant - as you have already shown. But maybe now all that knowledge and theory is restraining your mind? Maybe you need to remove the theory from your conscious mind (it will remain in your subconscious I think and refrain you from doing things which are plain musically not pleasant), and basically just blast away and let your fingers do unexpected unrestrained by the mind type playing. I know I am pushing the boat out a bit (especially coming from me, being very average on the guitar), but the thing is I think with your ability you could do things which would be amazing to hear and without putting up musical barriers you might end up with stuff that on paper doesn't make sense but when you "just do it" could be a revelation.
Again I must put in a disclaimer. I wouldn't have a fucking clue how to go about this myself, and it may be a pile of dog poo what I have suggested, but it's just what I was thinking!!
Mike
I think I agree with Mike I've been reading the thread over the last few days. Being a beginner guitarist with a limited knowledge of a few chords and one scale I say let yourself go ! I do with no idea where I'm going either on the guitar or piano I feel I create something, what that something Is up to the listener to judge for myself I'm breaking new ground, I didn't know I could even finish the song before I start it's just a release, don't ask me of what, because I don't know but it's a release of something and that something sometimes sounds good too. So my advice is let your self of the hook John and let it go, whatever it is let it GO! And I'm sure if you can manage that , you'll be as surprised as I am when I come up with something good with your knowledge and talent I have no doubt it will be amazing. And of course if there's no vocal send it my way. I'll be more than willing to give it a go ;D
(I spent ages yesterday trying to type something along these lines... I had to delete most of it cos I couldn't get it out right... So instead you got what I did post... But Kenny, Mike and Reg - cheers guys! - have helped me jog the stuff into shape - probably cos I'm saying roughly the same thing! :))
It never crossed my mind I didn't know what I was doing (it still doesn't actually :D) - I just went for it because it made me feel good. If I know at the time that it's "not the way that proper/better dudes would do it", I always think "oh wot the hell, I can't be bothered to learn/copy their way - mine's good enough".
I do care about my heroes and theory ... but only in so far as they make me feel good to listen to, and the theory helps me understand why it makes me feel good.
I'm not really a hippie - in fact, I'm very far from being a hippy - but I do like to talk about "vibes". In music, I'm always going for the vibe, not necessarily the notes. Notes are important, but once you've got reasonably competent, the vibes are at least as important to make you feel good. Some folks concentrate more on vibes altogether - that doesn't grab me so much, I like some notes and technique, some structure in what I listen to so that I can catch the vibes and float away (but I'm not a Hippy!! hehe)
For example, notes vs vibes - over the years (when I were younger and gigging), I had loads of people come up to me and go "loved the gig, but you're playing the intro to Hey Joe all wrong..."
I decided to stop feeling embarassed and starting going "Really? Oh, sorry... Well, I don't really worry too much about that... But... er... could you show me how to play it properly?" and give them my guitar for a moment. The ones who'd actually play would all play something different! I'd sometimes incorporate bits of what they showed me, but... I never saw two people play it the same way!!!... Some I recognised as Hey Joe, some, well... :D
Anyway, here's the thing -
We've all got a bunch of those guys in our heads. They all go "Hey! Pretty good... BUT..."
Some days we hear the "pretty good", but we ALWAYS hear the "BUT..."
Then there's some other guys in there not saying too much. They're just grooving and digging the vibe. Try and get down with those guys, they are there, and they know where the party is...
Probably, with my previous long experience in music journalism, my best in music is in arranging and home recording. I haven't a great opinion of myself as a guitar player...
Some years ago I had the idea to ask one of my patients - a retired professional classical musician - his *honest* opinions about my music (the usual solo stuff I post here on Songcrafters). He said that as an amateur I wasn't bad, BUT...he told in a row a whole series of things that weren't good AT ALL. Problems with timing, intonation, lack of precision, hesitation in my playing, few ideas in improvising etc. etc....all things I was aware of, but it was important to me that someone else (a music professionist) told me the truth.
By the other hand, right in these days I see on my Soundcloud that someone from Latvia has listened to many of my songs there more than 100 times in a couple of days :o
...and this probably means that, even with my HUGE limits, probably I can*sometimes* do, musically speaking, *something* that *someone* will consider positive and that deserved to be listened.
All this considered, and also that at my age (61) it will be absolutely impossible to reach higher levels, I think that the right consideration here is by Blooby, when he says that the trick is "to make peace with my music and my guitar playing", being aware of my limits and anyway to accept them, as I had to accept that even if I played soccer, I was a very, very bad player ;D .
Anyway, great thread, Robby Johnno! ;)
Alfredo
Johnny, I think you are a fantastic, stylish, and very knowledgeable player. I would give my right arm to play as well as you do. Wait a minute, let me restate that, I need my right arm to play, lol. I wish I had your skills as a guitarist but I don't. I play guitar, write songs, and add the instrumentation to most of my songs, including the lead guitar solos. Once in a while I come up with a solo that I'm happy with and proud of but the majority of my lead guitar soloing just fills a spot in the song. Nothing fabulous about them but I've learned to accept that my guitar skills are where they are at this stage of my life. I do try to learn new things to enhance and smooth what I have but I also try to keep the fun element in there. My advice is to relax, have fun, and realize what ever your guitar skills are there are better and a lot of not as skilled players in the world. Ok now I have it.......I would give my left little toe to play as well as you do ;D
Farrell
Thanks for the encouragement, chaps! I think a large part of the problem is my ridiculously low self esteem. We could talk about the causes of that until the cows come home... but let's not eh?
I'll just keep plugging away, doing what I do, and hopefully some of the positive comments you all make might just get through my thick skull and register with me.
Thanks again, chaps... I'm proud to call each & every one of you a friend.
John.
When I came back to breeze through this thread, I noticed my post didn't include any of my sycophantic admiration of your playing and musicality. It's one thing to play with great technical facility and quite another to actually say something. You manage to do both.
Blooby
Hi John,
This is thought provoking stuff.
My take on your playing is that even though you think you are not as good as you'd like to be, your benchmarks are very high and much higher than most of us on songcrafters could aspire to. Therefore, most of us are convinced that you are already a great player and most of us are not qualified enough to say otherwise - a bit like Alfredo was saying in his post.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be better. I want you to be better because I'll enjoy hearing it.
Now, my own guitar playing is at best rudimentary. I have no allusions of having any great talent. So, what I try to do is find ways to allow my playing to not get in the way of the song I'm trying to record. Sometimes I succeed and other times I fail. I generally post everything, so you can share in my success and failure. The best thing is that people are generally kind about the failures (or choose to ignore them).
When I listen back to my earliest songs, it is clear that I knew a lot less and had less ability than now, so I have benefitted from the process over the last 4-5 years.
I enjoy playing and recording. It is a great hobby that should last me the rest of my life. I'm typing this on a new laptop that I bought today to be my dedicated music computer. I'm sure this investment will allow me to expand in new ways and hopefully improve the music I record. If I record and play more, then surely my music will continue to get better. If not, I'll still enjoy myself.
Thanks for being part of Songcrafters. You are one of my favourites. Now go and practice!
Ian
Johnny,
My 10c worth.
I totally get where you are coming from and feel your pain. This thread has got me thinking.
Its complicated though. Sometimes I love what I do, sometimes I think its lifeless with no soul - same pieces at different times!
I can see everyones point of view on this one - and we all have our demons.
I like the quote from Conan Doyle about Sherlock, "intense bouts of energy followed by long periods of lethargy. That sums me up.
If I look at myself critically, I can rip myself a second a*hole. But this is me on me, and I'm not looking for any feedback on this, its just that I hope it helps the conversation
a) I hate the fact I never put enough effort in - I'm lazy, I should have practiced more over the years
b) I hate my stock 'go-to' phrases in my playing, they are corny an unmusical
c) I can't play fast enough
d) I should have learned to read music on the guitar, I can on the violin, so why didn't I???
e) FFS finish something, for once!!!
These are in my musical heart, and not in my head.
My head says, tough! You can improve all of them If you really want - and yet ..... sometimes I listen and think yeah, that sounds great (excuse my egotism) .......
So its complex. Personnally, I think this is absolutely part of the creative process. Self-doubt, self critism, love/hate with you output. Well documented that many creatives feel this way, not just musicians, but actors and their looks, comedians, artists, chefs etc, etc.
I also think its part of the gene that drives us to change, to improve, to make each piece better than the last. Somehow, we must embrase these feelings, and use them - however it wears you down, that's for sure.
After all these years, I still have no idea what I'm striving for. I do it, cos it like it. It is what it is.
Do I want to be Guthrie Govern (the greatest guitarist living that I know about) - who can hardly be described as successful, and who's music is hard to listen to? I really don't know.
A few years ago, I had to consider not being able to play anymore through illness, and that really hurt. So I do what I do, I tinker in my studio, I enthuse about my latest piece and force the family to listen whilst they roll their eyes, and pat me on the head. But that's cool - and I like it, it makes me happy!
To re-interate everyone else's comments - you are an amazing and thoughtful player imo. I do understand how you feel - but I'd say take on board what everyone is saying here, I think there is some deeply thought about advise, and hopefully help you think positive and good throughts.
Rock on brother.
B
Hi all, interesting question. When I was learning to play many many years ago (I'm 68 in a few weeks) I never really wanted to sound like anyone else, in fact I made a conscious effort not to listen to other players. In fact there were very few guitarist to listen to unless you were into jazz and that wasn't my thing. That all changed when I formed a band and realised people wanted what was in the charts, the local pubs, clubs all wanted rock and roll or whatever was popular at the time. I was never a good player in the Satchwood, Johnny Robbo class but I learned how to sell a number in the same way that I can't sing but can put a number over. I am in awe of some of the guys that play a thousand notes a minute but to my way of thinking I would prefer to play like Jeff Beck or Dave Gilmour who have their own sound and style. I do believe my playing and style has become more recognisable in the last few years but it came a bit late in life to do anything with other than enjoy sites like this where I can hear virtually all styles and competencies of the instrument we all love. Regards Willie
Isn't it about the pleasure that you get out of playing and, if you're lucky, the pleasure you give to others through your playing?
I'm happy not taking myself seriously, but taking what I do seriously. I know when I mess up, but it's transient, if anyone notices the moment is past and the music moves on. It's about delivery as much as skill and technical prowess. I would rather listen to someone playing passionately than a master technician delivering a soul-less performance.
The rhythm and notes are only part of the music. It's expression and 'Feel' that make good (and not so good) playing great. You can practice and learn technique, the intangibles are innate. You either got it, or you ain't.
Having said that, if you can fake sincerity, you have it made.
Quote from: Flash Harry on September 30, 2016, 06:41:23 AMHaving said that, rif you can fake sincerity, you have it made.
I've been married for 18 years.
Quote from: Hook on September 30, 2016, 06:49:38 AMQuote from: Flash Harry on September 30, 2016, 06:41:23 AMHaving said that, rif you can fake sincerity, you have it made.
I've been married for 18 years.
in the UK, this isn't known as 'Sincerity' and at my age, it's known as unlikely ;)