I was just wondering about the different approaches to recording we all have here. I don't mean what gear or software you use, but what's your "mindset" when it comes to laying a piece of music down for posterity?
Personally, I feel a bit lost if I don't have a tune to be working on. I thoroughly enjoy the process of recording & mixing and can happily spend a week or even more on a single piece of music. It's like having a 3000+ piece jigsaw puzzle on a table in the spare room... you want to finish it, but you're kind of sad when it's done because it's not there to work on any more.
I know some folks take the opposite view and want it all done as quickly as possible, but that's not me. I will spend at least the same amount of time mixing a track as I did recording the performances, for example... what reverb to use on the drums? Do I need to double track that part? How about a harmony part for the bridge etc etc etc...
I normally "rough out" a tune in Audacity just strumming chords & then mess around with melody ideas over the top. Once it's reasonably clear in my head what the basics are, I'll fire up Cakewalk & start doing the drum programming... that alone can take me a couple of days sometimes.
As I said, I just wondered what the various recording philosophies are on the site. Are you a perfectionist who takes ages to craft & hone a tune or do you prefer the more direct "do it all in as little time as possible" approach?
Cheers,
John.
I dont really have a philosophy per say. It all depends on the circumstances. For example if I have a song worked out on acoustic guitar. I generally fire up my micro br and record it live in the living room. Usually so I don't forget the song. On some occasions I may then take the song further. So I might create a drum track on my pc. Transfer that to my br800 and then throw the kitchen sink at it.
However, when I have a spare hour or two. I go to my br800 with a blank mind and either jam along to a beat till something comes. It also depends what instruments I have at hand as to where anything may go. Sometimes nothing happens. Something that usually works for me, is creating a drum track. Whilst doing that ideas present themselves to me. I may get an idea for a bassline or a riff on guitar that fits. But I generally fly blind.
I have seen Johnny robbos videos about chord structure and stuff. But I don't really understand theory. Instinctively I try and work out if this chord goes with that or this sounds good with That etc. Also learning new chords fires up my imagination. Bust mostly I don't know what I am doing and just go with the flow.
Little tricks I have learned tho are for example taking note of the bpm. Say for example the bpm for the drum track is 120bpm. I will play the bass at 60bpm or even 30bpm. You know half speed or quarter speed. With my Juno and soft synths I will set their arpeggiator at maybe 240 bpm double speed. Or do like the bass. Doing that sometimes throws up strange coincidences.
Anyway like I said I mostly don't know what I am doing. But I like that as it keeps things fresh. As sometimes you can find a new approach or method. Then use it ad nauseam and things get boring or predictable.
Regarding lyrics and vocals. The lyric very rarely comes first, tho I may come up with a phrase or title before I pick up an instrument. Usually a riff or chord pattern comes and then the words. The litlr compositions. The song is usually worked out in advance. On the br800 when starting from scratch the words usually come last. Tho sometimes it might just be drums and guitar then once vocals are done I would add instruments around that.
And about 90% of the time I sing stream of thought with no idea what words are gonna come out of my mouth. So I play the song on the recorder and sing (but rarely recording), pen in hand scribbling down the words that work. Once you get the first line, title or a topic the words just flow. There are no rules, but lots of methods just try mixing things up.
Interesting thread.
I don't really have a process either, it's whatever fits.
Original songs can come from nowhere and I've learnt that when they do I have to make a quick recording however I can otherwise they will disappear forever. So I'll grab my phone, open a track in GarageBand and record whatever I have, which is usually just a hummed melody. If I want to take it further then, I'll work out a chord structure that goes with it and fill in the gaps in the lyrics.
Like on Halloween Tangerine (https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=24113.msg294680#msg294680) (which came out of nowhere and I love it when that happens spontaneously - it's one of my favourite originals of recent years), I was working out how to go about carving a pumpkin for Halloween, realised I was unconsciously singing a song about it, grabbed the phone and jotted it down. Two days later it was done.
Other times the backer comes first and I'll have to find lyrics and a tune for it. In this case I'll record a draft and play it repeatedly in the car to and from work and do exactly that stream of thought thing that Jim was talking about until something comes.
Lyrics seldom come first and when they do they're the hardest to turn into a tune for me. I have a couple of nearly complete lyrics kicking around at the moment that are in need of a tune / track.
Programming drums usually takes the longest. I usually get an early version down then tailor them as the other parts go in.
Another thing I've learnt is not to erase / undo mistakes, some of my favourite bits have come from working in the 'mistake'.
Covers I usually approach in a more structured way. Again I'll start with the drums, then usually bass and keyboards. Guitars then vocals to finish the recording, but always there's a period of playing about / redoing after the recording is finished.
Nothing is ever really finished.
I wish I had more time to spend in a recording environment (about five years ago I spend more than a grand on updating my recording equipment; it now sits idle gathering dust), but there's no chance of that in the near future.
My approach to recording is fairly simple and straight forward or it seems that way me.
I usually don't begin recording until I have most of the song worked out in my mind. Once I settle on the acoustic guitar chords and structure I will hum out a melody. If it feels comfortable I'll write some words for it or pull from some archived lyric. I then rehearse this until it flows freely. While doing this I may add a bridge, lead break, rests, work out a bass progression, vocal harmonies/backing vocals, change the key and drink some beer, ;D This might take a few days to several weeks before I start the recording process, including the drinking beer part, lol.
I never hit the record button until I'm ready to lay down the keeper tracks. First I find a suitable BPM and a simple 3 to 5 minute drum machine pattern for my working base. I'll then record the rhythm guitar first (acoustic or electric). Next I'll record the lead vocal track. Once I have those completed I'll sit back and listen for other ideas to come forth and take notes. Such as the drum fills and the bass intro, full progression, outro, and for other instruments. Once those are done I'll add the backing vocals, any keyboards, hand percussion, harmonica, additional guitars, and lead guitar solo and fills.
During this whole process I'm selecting guitars, amps or sims, mics and effects etc. When I finally get a rough mix, I'll give it a critical listen to decide if I need to add or remove tracks/instruments and whether to stay with my drums or ask one of my more skillful drummer buddies to contribute real or programmed drums. I'll do the same with the lead guitar tracks and keys.
Once I'm satisfied with the tracks and instruments, that's when the final mixing begins.
My philosophy is the songwriting and recording approach go hand in hand.
For covers I use the same approach except I have to learn the parts instead of creating them.
Thanks for the question Johnny! It's good to review the process once in a while.
Farrell
Interesting to see how everybody works. I basically see myself more as a songwriter than a recording artist. I hear little soundbites and then try to see how I can work it into a song. These little phrases may be an overhead conversation, an old maxim or I might have read it in one of the books I read and I do read every day.
In the "studio" I start with a drumbeat and tinker with the bpm till I get a tempo I can work with and then move to the chords which quite often I have partially worked out in my head. I then add whatever instrumentation I feel fits the piece, as a side issue I still get a little "red light" panic and quite often fluff something a couple of times before getting a usable take. Finally the lyrics, which when the mojo's working probably takes thirty minutes, when it's not I may as well pack up and move on to something new. I always hope to get a good sound but I suspect my working speed will never allow me to get the excellent production a lot of guys on here get. Regards Willie
I'm going to get in trouble for this! Summed up as organic (or chaotic). I pick a beat, any beat, and loop it indefinitely. Fiddle until I find something that vaguely fits, then record it. I often use the 1st take, as I'm often winging it - (so sometimes get the meters wrong) - so don't always plan the bits in the middle. I normally check the clock when recording, when it gets past 3 minutes - then its time to stop. Next may be a second guitar, I can normally hear something at this point - so add something that fits. Then I add bass, sometimes some synths. If instrumental, I'll add the lead guitar. Finally I program the loops, add in fill loops etc. It doesn't have to be in that exact order. Most of it is first or second take, any more than that looses its feel for me. I sometimes abandon. Normally a name/subject will come from listening. I'm a very lazy lyric writer, if it fits, its good enough. Normally the whole process happens in a couple of hours - so the 'studio' is built for speed. I think I write in layers, one bit leads to the next, and then it is as it is! Sometimes it works, many times it doesn't. Sometimes I hate it - but then listen to it 6 months on, and think I really like that. Its very odd.
I often think that I should spend much longer. My personality is to linger and mull on things forever, so I kinda trained myself to do the complete opposite. Very strange, but there it is! I was wondering today if I could actually spend some quality and extended time on a recording. To be honest, I don't know - but I like to think so!
One thing, I can hear my stock phrases in my guitar playing, and it really annoys me - "damn, I've used that lick. Again!". But I love the whole process, and love hearing what you guys produce, and love collaborating. There you have it.
B
Very interesting, chaps! Thanks for indulging my curiosity. I suppose my reason for raising this subject in the first place was to see if there was anything I could try when I hit a dry patch (as often happens). I do like the idea of just setting up a loop and playing whatever comes out (James' "stream of thought" approach & Bruno's "fiddle until I find something that vaguely fits" methods)... I've tried this approach in the past, though, and it usually turns into an unstructured lead guitar "widdle-fest". However, now I have the acoustic that should curtail my "guitar hero" tendencies next time I try this.
With me it's almost always a chord sequence that arrives first... I'm a sucker for a chord progression & I know I can (usually) let the melody take care of itself as long as the foundations are there in the shape of a chord progression I'm happy with. I do often find myself falling back on the same little melodic motifs though, which is annoying. One such thing is the "clave" rhythm where you place a note on the "1" of the bar, then on the "and" of beat 2, and finally on the "4" - I just noticed I did this all over All The King's Men - the 2nd, 4th, 6th & 8th bars of the intro are all based on this little cliche... I need to keep an eye on that! I don't want to end up sounding like I'm writing the same tune over & over again.
As I said, getting an insight into how other people approach the creative process is massively helpful to me. Thanks again, chaps!
Great topic guys=
I start with a tune in mind --make the basic backer on chord pulse
If it fits together---I transfer it to The BR600 and add guitars
If it's a cover I then will record the vocals -I do all the mixing as well on the BR600
then transfer to Audacity and covert to mp3-
a lot of the times it ends up sounding crap -so I delete and go on to something else--
It's a kind of hit and miss affair with me but I enjoy doing it this way -- ;D ;D ;D
Tommy
Interesting to see how others go about it.
I'm a BR600 user. Always start with the bit I hate - browsing through the drum patterns for a suitable beat and then adjust the tempo to fit. I then record my rhythm guitar track as a guide. I never use punch in/out so if I make a mistake I re-record the whole track again. Once I'm happy with it I add any other rhythm guitar parts, then bass, sometimes a bit of keyboard, then any guitar solos, bouncing tracks if need be and re-recording the track if I make a mistake. Once the backing is finished I do the vocals and now and again a bit of backing vocals. I then play through the whole lot and edit the drums, perhaps adding an intro and fills, perhaps changing the pattern during the chorus etc. I then master it on the BR600, export it as a wav. to my old laptop as my windows 10 PC doesnt like the BR600. I then use a USB stick to copy it from my laptop to my PC. Load it into Audacity to check for clipping, normalise it then save as a MP3 file ready to upload.
Ok, so where do I start... I am not even sure myself. I seem to go through phases that change my approach periodically that seem to go in a cycle.
For example, I used to mess around with software synths (on top of a simple drum loop I would make) in garageband or logic pro on my headphones (on the laptop in front of the telly). This is interesting but time consuming, but i quite enjoy it. It allows you to explore weird sounds and create backing tracks. Then if I have done anything I like would sometimes plonk some rhythm guitar on top and finally a melodic lead over the top of the whole thing. Obviously this ends up being an instrumental, but I kinda like this type of thing.
Other times I find a song title comes to me through a phrase that comes to me out of the blue, probably from some thoughts about life that are spinning round in my head. If I really like the phrase (it will normally be the song title), I will try to write a quick verse in my head, say 4 lines or so. Very quickly I will either like it and try to finish the lyrics or if I find myself struggling I will bin the idea pretty fast. These normally end up being my rock / blues tracks. After I have a verse and maybe the start of a chorus down lyric wise I will mess around with my guitar and see if i can strum a chord sequence I like that fits. If I can, I then get on to the computer and stick down a drum loop, plonk down the guitar track, vocals next. Then I sometimes stick a software bass on top. Finally I go back and put in drum fills
My third way is thanks to Songcrafters!! and i really am grateful to have found the site for this. It is those Fests that I have started to try and take part in more. The Covers one is great and I do take part in that sometimes, but the originals fests are fab as often (if I am grabbed by the winning fest) they force me to try making a song about that particular subject. This somehow seems to get the odd song out of me that would never have come normally as I am often like a rabbit trapped in the headlights when it comes to deciding what to do a song about, so this way gets around that...
That's about it!!
My approach at the moment is:
Go in the broom-cupboard (studio) thinking about recording.
Decide it's not time yet.
Leave without switching the BR on.
Has been for some time...
:D :D :D :D :D
However, I am playing guitar A HUGE AMOUNT and having a lot of fun. Just no songwriting.
Pretty much, I usually only record when I have an arranged song that I want to hear myself. Sometimes I might write a new one - using the studio and some of the methods described by others above - while I'm trying to record the other one! But usually I only turn the kit on when I have a completed and arranged song. I then use the multi-tracker to have rehearsals and band practices for the musicians (me) until we know how to play what's in my head. By the time I know how to do that, it's pretty much recorded.
Quote from: AndyR on September 07, 2016, 02:04:15 AMMy approach at the moment is:
Go in the broom-cupboard (studio) thinking about recording.
Decide it's not time yet.
Leave without switching the BR on.
Has been for some time...
:D :D :D :D :D
.
sadly that has been my approach this year as well :(
I have been recording a bit of live music on multi track straight out of a mixer recently. This has taught me a great deal about delivering live sound in a venue such as a pub or a club or latterly outdoors. It's been fascinating.
The recording process is pretty straight forward, signal levels, mic positioning etc..
The really fascinating stuff is what to do with the raw recorded signal to make it sound good. I could fill 10 pages. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll produce something.
Quote from: Flash Harry on September 07, 2016, 11:23:57 AMI have been recording a bit of live music on multi track straight out of a mixer recently. This has taught me a great deal about delivering live sound in a venue such as a pub or a club or latterly outdoors. It's been fascinating.
The recording process is pretty straight forward, signal levels, mic positioning etc..
The really fascinating stuff is what to do with the raw recorded signal to make it sound good. I could fill 10 pages. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll produce something.
Flash, are you also playing in the band while you're recording live or just running the sound? I've done both in the past and found just running the sound while recording much more enjoyable instead of trying play, sing and keep an eye on the mixer/recorder. Although I did enjoyed both. Do you find what you've learned to be applicable to the studio?
Farrell
Quote from: Farrell Jackson on September 07, 2016, 03:33:17 PM....are you also playing in the band while you're recording live or just running the sound?
A bit of both, once set up, all I need to do is hit record...
QuoteDo you find what you've learned to be applicable to the studio?
Farrell
Some, I have improved the power in the kick drum, the fullness and punch in the bass and various dynamics and EQ bits and pieces.
Mostly I have found that noise on stage is your enemy and you need to control it. This includes instruments being played too loudly and monitoring noise. Things that you seldom struggle with in a studio setting.
Very interesting read and I find I relate and can identify with much of what's being said. I record with so many different approaches that I can't say that there is one way I do things.
At first it was all about getting the song down everything else was extra. As I became a better player/engineer & producer it did become more fun to produce and play more but still in essence it is/was about finding the song and then the next one.
Sometimes the lyrics are first, sometimes the music. I like to build tracks off a LITLR recodings and I like to write to existing drum tracks. I love layering and recording my Hook songs but I have struggled with recoding my kids music (job) over this summer.
Over the last 3 months I've written a bunch of songs the 1st month. Then set out to record them . I now have 15 songs tracked out on my Tascam DP24sd ( I know,I'm finally using it & it's exciting & I love it) and am in the midst of mixing and mastering.
I have a completely new studio set up and have been spending much more time EQing and trying to find the right mix. I tried a new mic for lead vocals on this cd , a Shure beta 58, and I think its really good but a little tinty. I'm having to learn a new board and use a different appriach... much learning going on...and hopefully some improvement on my skills. This is probably my last attempt at selling my music and my 1st attempt at having merch at a show( big show at The Straz Center here in town on Oct 8th). I have the Square and can take credit cards so I'm gonna have some shirts made and a few other items +this new disc...hopefully. gonna have a barcode,shrinkwrap..the works.
I still think I'm able to get quality recordings done in the car and hope to continue to do that forever. There are no rules and I like it that way.
I just got some new monitors yesterday, JBL 3 series and the gu at Guitar Center started talking room treatments and shit...I know it makes a difference but I think too much importance is put on the slickness of music now days and not on the creativity.
No Rules!
The only advise I could offer anyone is, if you find that you've done something the same way forever and you're bored or stuck, what's it gonna hurt to try something different.
No rules!
I find it laughable that what I do could even be considered "an approach." I am usually very pinched for recording time so I just force myself to do so. All my weird little instrumentals are make-it-up-as-I-go affairs. It's probably painfully apparent, but such is life. Oh, and usually there is scotch involved.
The second method is that John will come over, and I throw some chords his way. His off-filter ability to come up with something quick and interesting astounds me. And usually, there is scotch involved.
Lately, I've been on a bit of a pedal binge, so the new sounds are inspiring. It may be a while, but I imagine my next few posts will sound odder than usual.
Blooby
Quote from: Hook on September 09, 2016, 10:16:09 AMNo Rules!
The only advise I could offer anyone is, if you find that you've done something the same way forever and you're bored or stuck, what's it gonna hurt to try something different.
No rules!
I like that philosophy.
That pretty much sums it up for me. I just record stuff and go back to it later and find something that may work. Sometimes it's by accident and you'll think how did I do that? Then after re-recording tracks for a sub-mix to work off of, the mixing concept usually starts the same with channel strips and finding a good gain staging level. After that, there are so many things you can do to achieve what you're after in a mix.
EQ & Compression are great starting points, especially on the main stereo output. Comp on the main makes for a tighter mixing session IMO. I know that these are just basic concepts that everyone knows, but as Hook mentioned NO RULES! So, as far as recording goes, just try and find what works best for you.
Gary
Interesting that there are so many different sequences here. I guess that shows there is no right or wrong sequence. Whatever works for you.
The first thing I do is record a "scratch" track. That's a guitar and vocal track that accomplishes two things. First it helps me determine what the bpm should be. Also, this track, which contains the lyrics, is a guide for the first few instruments I track. While listening to both the scratch track and click I get the rhythm track down. Still using the scratch and click, I put the bass down next, then the drums. I now no longer need the click, but might still use the scratch to help me know where I am in the song. Then comes whatever I want to put in: keyboards, lead guitar, mandolin, whatever. The lead vox and then backing vox are last.
I want to add something I stumbled onto which works real well for creating harmonic guitar breaks. I start by improvising to what I have so far. Once I find what I like, I try to memorize it so I can double track. At first I just wanted to double track for fullness. But I found by accident that during certain sections, like a string of notes, if I start the second guitar a measure later than the first I have created a canon, you know, like row your boat. This harmonizes great. Having fallen into this, I now plan for certain sections, to stard one guitar late to create cool harmonies.
Thanks for all the ideas and assistance.
Ron