I know a lot of you are familiar with this but...If you fancy having a go at a bit of lead guitar and are not familiar with the notes you need...I found this a handy little guide as a start ...
I printed it then laminated it and used a wipe off marker to hi light stuff....
BTW the black notes are root notes
remember its not the number of notes you play its the feeling in them 8)
Have Fun ;)
LOL It makes no sense to me whatever. And I can read music. LOL I can even play some of the scales. LOL Guess I am a lost cause.
Just look at the top line Wiley... that is the scale in all positions in the key of A. (You'll see the "A" at the left corner). All the other lines are the same thing... just moved up the fretboard to the next note.
This is good to post 48, I wanted to see the Blues scale in all postions, but had just found the first. So funny how it is just a Penatonic Minor with a few added notes. I can see the "cages" easily since I know Pent. minor, but would be better if showed the cages one at time (I had looked for one like that, but no luck).
Hey guys... check this out....
http://scaleref.com/
Quote from: dragonshade on April 09, 2009, 11:28:14 PMJust look at the top line Wiley... that is the scale in all positions in the key of A. (You'll see the "A" at the left corner). All the other lines are the same thing... just moved up the fretboard to the next note.
This is good to post 48, I wanted to see the Blues scale in all postions, but had just found the first. So funny how it is just a Penatonic Minor with a few added notes. I can see the "cages" easily since I know Pent. minor, but would be better if showed the cages one at time (I had looked for one like that, but no luck).
Here you go ;)
Quote from: dragonshade on April 10, 2009, 12:15:36 AMHey guys... check this out....
http://scaleref.com/
hmm nice one ... lots of scales I've only heard rumors about 8)
G.
Ok now you have the five positions of the Minor Pentatonic or blues scale (same thing) (as in 48's attachment above), the trick is to remember where these are on the fretboard for whatever key you are playing in. In E the first shape is at the first fret, in G the first shape starts on the third fret, etc based on where the root note is . The way that I locked all these positions into my head was to combine the five shapes of the pentatonic with the five chord shapes in the "caged" system. See link for explanation of "caged" system if you haven't already seen it (for me this was one of biggest keys to unlocking the fretboard). http://www.cagedguitarsystem.net/ (http://www.cagedguitarsystem.net/)
So you can play a "C" chord in five positions up the neck. Each of these "Caged" shapes gets a pentatonic position, and it always stays the same. E-shape is Pent#1, D shape is Pent#2, C shape is Pent#3, A shape is Pent #4 and finally G shape is Pent#5. This relationship holds for all keys.
How do you use this: First get to know all five pent positions and can play in them without too much trouble. Second learn this caged system, and play any chord in any of the five shapes anywhere on the neck. This really opens up the possibilities for playing chords, all these chord shapes are moveable chords. Now for the good part, if you are playing in the key of E and you want to solo further up the neck, you find the chord shape for E further up the neck (eg the A shape for E chord is at the 7th fret), just to remind yourself play the E chord on the 7th fret, now you can play the minot pent scale there in the 4th position. Instant memory aide, all you have to do is find the chord shape and the pent position is right there. It takes some time to get this locked into your brain but after a short while you can find any pent position on the neck very quickly without fumbling around too muck for whatever key you are playing in. This was a system that has worked very well for me. The big revelation for me was to connect the 5 positions of the pentatonic scale with the 5 chord shapes of the "Caged" system. The internet is such a wealth of information, its all there, all this stuff is a finger type away. There are lots of different ways folks have used to memorize the pentatonic positions are on the neck, this one works very well for me. I don't get lost now when I am traveling up and down the neck looking for pentatonic positions to play, I use chord shapes as my anchor points.
Quote from: dragonshade on April 10, 2009, 12:15:36 AMHey guys... check this out....
http://scaleref.com/
Thanks that that. It's a good reference page. Like Geir said, some of these were rumours to me. And the others I hadn't even heard of.
Scales intrigue me at times. I just don't know why some things sound right and some don't. It must be getting late here if the big questions are coming out to play. But when I look at this enormous set of scales it makes me think that maybe everything sounds right - is there a combination of notes that aren't covered here?
Having 'tried' to do a late addition to the blues festival yesterday, I have a feeling I should lock myself away with all this info for a while! :D
Thanks for posting everyone - I need all the tips and knowledge I can get!
Hey Bluesberry
I have read all of this in the book Chords and Scales by David Mead and it just blows your mind. However, it is good reading and you can learn an awful lot from what your saying. I would also recommend this book to any interested in learning scales. For example you actually learn how chords are made up of odd notes like 6th's 13th and augments something which I never knew. Good to have you back Tim.
Regards
Eddy
Attached is a simPle blueZ scale chart that I uSe that works for Major or Minor pentAtonic blues sCales.
Quote from: Satchwood on April 20, 2009, 04:06:06 PMAttached is a simPle blueZ scale chart that I uSe that works for Major or Minor pentAtonic blues sCales.
It's amazing how dots before your eyes can give you, well, dots before the eyes. This is the same scale that 48 posted at the beginning (minor pentatonic with a flatted fifth) but it took me awhile to realize that. Phew, I was confused for a minute. But I'm not sure how it work when you wanted to play a major pentatonic run, but then again I'm not a blues player.
Basically Minor Blues is more "traditional" and Major Blues has a "happier/ country feel"
The relationship is shown below:
(http://www.northerndevils.co.uk/album/files/13/1xx.JPG)
I have done a little demo which hopefully will help
BTW I am only using the scale notes in the diagram above
A Great Bluesman said "It takes 20 minutes to learn the notes and 20 years to learn how to play them".........
Enjoy
And here's the backer... 8)
You might recognise it as the base for Greenys "Heart in a Cage" :o
I hope a few more will have a go at Greeny's excellent Version ;)
Now this makes sense. If you are using these in different keys then that's going to change everything. The major pentatonic in one key (say, C) is always going to be the same as the minor pentatonic in the key that is a sixth above (A). And the minor third of the first key (Eb) is always going to be the same as the flatted fifth of the second key. So your diagram is using the term blue note to mean two different notes in the two scales, the b3 in C and the b5 in A. I'm getting it now.
I think you got it Tony! You sound like you understand music theory too.
I think my "all inclusive" blues scale chart can be confusing at first (sorry), but it works for playing blues in all keys, whether major or minor sounding, or even for playing in all keys via straight pentatonic scales (without the blue note).
Sometimes music theory gets kind of confusing to me, so I often use this simple 3 fret counting method when I'm trying to figure out which scale to play.
Quote from: 48 on April 09, 2009, 03:04:36 AMI know a lot of you are familiar with this but...If you fancy having a go at a bit of lead guitar and are not familiar with the notes you need...I found this a handy little guide as a start ...
I printed it then laminated it and used a wipe off marker to hi light stuff....
BTW the black notes are root notes
remember its not the number of notes you play its the feeling in them 8)
Have Fun ;)
I learned the 5 patterns last year, and Im pretty fluent moving them around in the different keys(and then I went back and learned the blue notes)...Im not so good converting it to the Minor scale on the fly, I pretty much have to count it off of the first major shape....but that will come with time, its all the same 5 patterns to me at this point anyways.
But heres my question...which are the best notes to bend and which are the best to slide into? I read reference to this once in a book but have yet to find that page again. If it can be explained, feel free to use the first position or R, b3, etc if need be...I can transcribe it for the other patterns later.
Quote from: Satchwood on April 20, 2009, 04:06:06 PMAttached is a simPle blueZ scale chart that I uSe that works for Major or Minor pentAtonic blues sCales.
One more question...what does the "nm" and "(n-3)M" in your example mean? For some reason that looks useful, like to convert from major to minor...but I cant wrap my head around the formula.
Quote from: Sprocket on May 19, 2009, 05:23:32 PMQuote from: Satchwood on April 20, 2009, 04:06:06 PMAttached is a simPle blueZ scale chart that I uSe that works for Major or Minor pentAtonic blues sCales.
One more question...what does the "nm" and "(n-3)M" in your example mean? For some reason that looks useful, like to convert from major to minor...but I cant wrap my head around the formula.
the "nm" is the root position of the minor blues scale
(n-3) is 3 frets back from "m" which is the first position of the Major blues scale......
Sorry this is so long...I hope this helps explain it at least the way I understand it. I actually typed this up a few weeks ago for a friend of mine. 48 basically answered the question - but here's a longer version with some relative minor stuff thrown in:
From the chart:
nm = minor root starting note
(n-3)M = Major root starting note is 3 frets down from minor root starting note
(n+3)m = minor root note plus 3 frets up from Major root starting note
nM = Major root note
For example, if I want to play a simple 'A' minor pentatonic blues scale using box 1 position, I do the following:
Position my hand at fret nm = 5 (root note A) then play the scale.
For a major sounding blues 'A major' tune, I would position my hand at fret:
(n-3)M (5 - 3=2) three frets down from the minor position
(the big 'M' stands for Major, the little 'm' stands for minor).
You can also work the other way as well (Major to minor). A little tricker and is the reason why I use Major / Relative minor knowledge a bit (ie. Am is the relative minor for C Major):
For example, if you want to play blues (box position 1) in C Major, you position your hands at fret:
nM = 8 (root note C on the big E string)
Now you want to switch to a more minor sounding scale, then position your hand at fret:
(n-3)M = 8 – 3 = 5 (root note A, A minor is the relative minor of C Major)
Pretty cool, I think...
So now if you want to play a G minor blues tune: position one would be nm=3 or the 3rd fret (root note G). If you want to then switch to a G major sounding scale, just move your hand 3 frets down (n-3)M which is the open position. E minor is the relative minor of G Major.
This little code can help anyone play blues in any scale, whether major sounding or minor sounding. This works for straight Pentatonic scales as well (except without the blue note).
A little tricky at first, but it just requires understanding the simple code and counting frets. I know not much music theory here.
I then personally do a lot of sliding around between box positions to connect the different positions to get more elaborate smooth sounding. I also think of chord positions to help me out and use Major key / relative Minor key knowledge as well. Here are a few Major/minor correlations that I find helpful:
A minor is the relative minor for C Major (A is three frets down from C)
B minor is the relative minor for D Major (B is three frets down from D)
D minor is the relative minor for F Major (D is three frets down from F)
E minor is the relative minor for G Major (E is three frets down from G)
F# minor is the relative minor for A Major (F# is three frets down from A)
I hope this helps, and doesn't sound confusing...
The way you play satchwood, burning up the fretboard like you do, I can't imaging you using any kind of "box" system, you are just so darn fluid. I guess we all need our anchor points to keep things in key.
When I'm playing in certain fave keys, to be honest with you, I don't think of boxes, or scales, or chords, or pretty much nothin......
It's some of those other keys that bring me back to earth 8)
Quote from: Satchwood on May 20, 2009, 09:27:45 AMI then personally do a lot of sliding around between box positions to connect the different positions to get more elaborate smooth sounding. I also think of chord positions to help me out and use Major key / relative Minor key knowledge as well. Here are a few Major/minor correlations that I find helpful:
A minor is the relative minor for C Major (A is three frets down from C)
B minor is the relative minor for D Major (B is three frets down from D)
D minor is the relative minor for F Major (D is three frets down from F)
E minor is the relative minor for G Major (E is three frets down from G)
F# minor is the relative minor for A Major (F# is three frets down from A)
I hope this helps, and doesn't sound confusing...
Ive got the circle of fifths(there seems to be many variations)...so the relative major and minors is easy for me...here it is if anybody else might be interested.
(http://files.meetup.com/227762/Circle%20of%20Fifths%20wheel.gif)
Although Im still curious about the bending and sliding...some notes sound good bent, some dont...and others sound great when slid into. Any help???
Quote from: Sprocket on May 22, 2009, 12:12:48 PMAlthough Im still curious about the bending and sliding...some notes sound good bent, some dont...and others sound great when slid into. Any help???
This is where it gets interesting....... 8)
every Blues player has different ways of using Bends and Slides as well as hammer ons, pull offs, double stops and vibrato to enrich their playing...
Its mainly trial and error ::)
altho with bends, I think its important to bend up or down between two notes in the Blues scale not just a random bend going nowhere......
Hope this helps ;)
All this info is extremely useful. I'm a confused man when it comes to theory and understanding is I hope what I'll find here on this site. Thanks for all your great/knowledgeable comments.