Ok, most people find this astounding when I ask, but I never get an answer that works. I can strum the guitar, I can change chords, I can do both at the same time! The problem is, every time I open my mouth, either one or both of my hands stop working. Obviously I'm a noob in every aspect of music.
Some people tell me that it's just unnatural to play without singing, they can't wrap their mind around it. Others tell me to just practice. I've hit some sort of mental barrier. I can only tell you this, I am consciously aware of what both hands are doing, and concentrate on changes. I'm assuming if this became second nature, almost an involuntary action that I could focus on moving my lips?
Well... with the BR you have the luxury of being able to record both separately! But for me, I couldn't write songs or play live without doing both at the same time :D
I think it's just practice - and as you say, being at a level of ease where your hands are taking care of the chords automatically whilst your mind is focused on nailing the vocal.
And remember, it's not unnatural to play without singing - there are plenty of top-notch guitarists on here who won't be doing both at the same time. It just depends on what you want from your own music :)
I am working on this very thing. About a year ago I really struggled with this. I consider myself a much better guitar player than singer, so I never focused on singing before. But, I really want to be able to play and sing at the same time because when it is clicking it just feels so great. So I started, slowly at first, just keep practicing. Pick songs with really easy chord progressions (like G-C-D nothing else for example) and sing with these. Have tab music printed out (don't rely on your memory), and go over a few songs over and over for days, weeks, months. It takes a lot of practice. Go over the same song 5 times in a row for example. One thing I have done is make backing tracks with my MBR, drums and just the acoustic strumming chords, nothing fancy. Make a MP3 and sing along with this. If you get lost on the chords you stop strumming for a bit, but keep singing, then pick up with your strumming on the next line, verse. This way you can concentrate more on the singing than the guitar, and if you loose your guitar thread you don't have to stop. After a few times like this it gets much easier. Then try it without the backer. It takes a lot, lot, lot of practice to be able to do this. It is not easy, but when it starts to come it is so rewarding. I love to play and sing at the same time now, great way to unwind after a shitty day at work.
Not an uncommon thing for sure. I've found that some songs are just easier than others to sing along too. It's especially tough when the vocal melody varies greatly from the chordal melody. Not sure if thats what I mean but for example, I love playing Dave Matthews' "Crash" on acoustic but I'll be darned if I can hit the notes right, or follow along the was Dave sings it. But I dont let it stop me... On pretty much every song that I sing and play on, I've found its much easier to just follow your own voice and internal melody as opposed to trying to sing/sound just like the original. On the same note, I dont try to play the guitar the exact same way either. It's better to do it naturally; however it winds up sounding vs. the original. If it means skipping a strum or a whole chord altogether, just keep playing/singing and you'll work it out on your own and to your own style.
My point here is to relax and find your own way thru the song. If belting the words out is difficult, then start with just humming along and feeling how the vocal melody sits with the guitar. Another big suggestion is to play along with a metronome or even just a generic drum beat using the MBR or whatever is on hand. It's amazing how much simpler playing/singing becomes when you dont have to think about the tempo and just go with the flow. My last suggestion as I mention above, is to play the song with your own voice and style (in my case, i usually end up using a punk sensibility to make the song my own...)
Good luck and keep it up!
Great, GREAT advice, thank you all. I think my approach to playing has been off. I've been mechanical about the whole process, and not so much spiritual. On occasion, I cut loose and "feel" it, its so much more satisfying.
A few of the songs I work on regularly are:
Patience - Guns N' Roses
Every Rose Has its Thorn - Poison
Ramblin' Man - Allman Brothers
Take it Easy - Eagles
The last 2 I can almost sing and play, because the strum pattern and syllables line up quite nicely. (great substitution for 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and).
I'm looking forward to one day exploring the fret board beyond the 3rd Fret too. As far as singing goes... I can empty a bar on karaoke night.
Hey man, I'd say practice~ I know there's some songs where at first it feels like there's no way I could ever sing and play! But if there's a will, there's a way! You can do it if you set your mind to it sort of thing~ If Kurt Cobain could do it (with his weird ryhthms) so can you and I! The only song on your list that I haven't been playing(and singing ;)) for years is Ramblin' Man... Glad to have you aboard bro 8)
And don't forget that B.B.King very rarely manages both. He overlaps his singing with a little guitar but pretty much keeps them separate. And he hasn't done too badly for himself - although he generally has the luxury of a rhythm guitarist for the chords.
Yeah, that's a luxury of some styles; some call and answer kind of stuff. I think it's a simple answer. Practice, and a lot of it. Some it comes to very easily. Some not. It has to be pretty basic for me to do both at the same time, but then again, I don;t practice enough at it either. Good luck! ac
You will get there. Just keep your songs simple. Through Google and other search sites you can search for the words & lyrics to songs. A lot of them rate them by difficulty. You don't always have to make a song have a kazillion chords and still sound nice. there are many simple options. LOL As I can play basic rythm chords. Not bar chords and can follow a lot. Just work at it and it will come and yes the Br is nice as you can do one and then add the other. And Kody Ramblin Man is the only one I knew LOL
I've been a guitar player for nearly 20 years, was always the lead or rhythm in the band and never even gave vocals much thought at all. After quitting music completely for a few years, I got back into it again about 6 months ago and started jamming with a drummer, my old bass player and my son playing rhythm guitar. While jamming out some riffs is fun after a few sessions it starts to get boring without vocals so I decided to give it a shot, took the plunge bought a cheap PA and a Mic.
I really suprised myself at first as I didn't have much trouble blurting out the lyrics for songs I knew already. First thing I came to realize after a few jams is the most important thing... your voice and guitar are 2 completely seperate instruments.
Once I came to grips with that, I found it easier for me to make sure I had the guitar riffs down 100% prior to trying to sing along. One major change I made was whenever I practice now, I always ALWAYS attempt to sing it while playing... getting used to it made a huge difference.
I'm still no pro or nothing and my singing is a major work in progress, but I have pretty much overcome the obstacle of working both instruments at the same time. My major issue now is learning how to breathe properly so I can sing better and clearer. I posted a thing a few weeks ago here which I removed but I got a lot of tips from the community and the general tip that pretty much everyone kept saying was practice practice practice and posture and breathing are very important.
hopefully this helps.
Dmann.
Quote from: Dmann on April 06, 2009, 05:43:29 PMyour voice and guitar are 2 completely seperate instruments.
Once I came to grips with that, I found it easier for me to make sure I had the guitar riffs down 100% prior to trying to sing along.
hopefully this helps.
Dmann.
And that my friend is exactly what I've been having a difficult time with. I suppose I should spend time singing songs when not playing in order to get them down. I've found that while my girlfriend has a terrific ear for music, I am not so blessed. I have only tried singing WHILE playing, and I'm very conscious of how bad I sound. If I don't put in the time training my voice, that will never change.
I'm going to force myself to be the "idiot" in the other car that everyone looks at and laughs at while driving down the road. I guess they will only see me once in their life right? I'll just drive and belt out lyrics.
Practice helps alot, if you know the song well enough that one part (singing or playing) is second nature.
Its MUCH easier to play rhythm than lead while singing.
haha you are not alone impudent, i can't even speak while playing the guitar!
Hey, somebody dug deep to find this one to move over! I'm ashamed to admit, I still only sing in the car. I have not practiced a cover song in ages. I got a bit side tracked with the wonderful world of blues!
:) Well when you did the 12 days of Christmas you sounded fine!! You whould work your voice more. You also do an out standing schwartnegger imitaion!! :) Remember?
PJ
I have no idea what you're talking about PJ...... ;)
Yes practice is it essentially.
Once you have both the instrument and vocals in a song really "down" you can mentally switch your attention back and forth as you play and as needed.
It's fun to practice keeping tempo with the instrument while slightly slowing and speeding up the vocal timing to give expression.
I ran into this years ago doing Beatles stuff. Try singing while doing the the riffs to "I Feel Fine." Once the riffs are second nature it almost feels as if someone else is playing that part and you can focus on the singing.
Speaking of 12 days of Christmas...... Hey TonyW - I think you should cover the song Bohemian Rhapsody opera style LOL!
LOL Satch! believe me I do when I'm in the privacy of my own element! That was a fun night!
Glenn, Thanks for the tips!
practice, practice, practice..... and when you've finished, practice. Never forget, when The Beatles were doing Hamburg and no one had ever heard of them, they played 12 hours+ a day for about 6 months... you're gonna get pretty good after that. And that was just the start...
henwrench
If this makes sense or is helpful....
At first I would sing songs and strum. I found that when I was singing, my strumming would be off from the correct rhythm but it helped me sing the correct melody at the time.
Once I got comfortable with singing melodies with whatever strum pattern helped (right or wrong). I went back to just stumming the song without singing and LOCKED THAT RIGHT HAND IN.
Meaning, once I had "locked" my strumming hand into the correct rhythm through playing along with the song, and even sometimes just strumming a muted rhythym without bothering with my left hand and fingering. As long as I got the correct rhythm nothing else matters at this point.
Once I had "locked" my strumming hand in to the rhythm of the songs I would go back and try singing along.
In the end I found I would be able to sing along and not have to think about getting the correct rhythm, resulting in more focus on singing the melody and having that solid thick rhythm sound coming as second nature.
This tip goes along with the theme of this thread...Tons of practice. Once your strumming or rhythm playing hand works as an unconscious act like walking you can focus better on the other stuff easier.
Hope this makes sense. I'm not a guitar teacher by any stretch so I'm not very good at putting practice into words.
As everyone has said, it is all just practice. I'm intrigued that you have been "side tracked" by blues music. I used to play and sing for years (and in public) and whilst blues would definitely be my chosen genre/vocation/lifestyle, it is the most difficult for me to sing 'n play at the same time. Something like "Can't hold out" Clapton style can get my lips and hands and probably my knackers all tied up in knots.
ah 1 and ah 2 and ah 3 4 9
you are so oooooooooooooooooooooo byuootifooooooooooool
two meat
altogether now
And it is like second nature to me as I self taught myself chords. And they would be nothing without singing along. After many years it is just a part of me. :(
One possible alternative is that I don't have the tangled lips/hands thing when I'm playing my own stuff, I guess because a: I wrote it and I know how I want it to sound, and b: I'm really not trying to sound like or be in tempo like anyone else.
There are so many great tips in here.
Upsetminded, I really appreciate the level of detail that you took. It was time consuming and very appreciated. I followed the concept well.
Goatlips,
48 offers a blues improv course. I was an absolute unmolded beginner when I bought my BR. I couldn't do anything on a guitar. Since taking lessons from 48, I have evolved into an average musician. I'm absolutely in love with playing, and get better weekly.
I've devoted a majority of my practice time to improv, and I put everything else on pause until later. Ironically, my entire playing level has increased even without practice.
Quote from: s.w.goatlips on January 22, 2010, 06:07:36 PMOne possible alternative is that I don't have the tangled lips/hands thing when I'm playing my own stuff, I guess because a: I wrote it and I know how I want it to sound, and b: I'm really not trying to sound like or be in tempo like anyone else.
Ah, that is great advice and is exactly how I'm doing it. I bought an acoustic guitar a few weeks ago, and aside from always wanting my own acoustic guitar, I was dying to learn to sing and play at the same time. An ominous, if not hopeless task at first, though.
Playing some other artist's song was just not cutting it, and almost all of my original material had been multitracked. To make things worse, it was all weighted in a way that made impossible to play and sing at the same time.
So what I did was write a simple simple little song with a couple chords in it. I played that dumb f**ing thing for two hours a day for three days. I'm sure any neighbors that walked by were laughing their asses off. Eventually I was able to play for three minutes or so while singing an easy little rhyme.
I know it falls in the line of "practice a lot", but I think we need to keep in mind that you have to practice right. Just because you are sitting behind your guitar for several hours a day, it may not help you at all if basic technique is not being adhered to. And trying to start with a cool Zakk Wylde acoustic piece ain't really the smartest thing to do, either.
I saw where "Jim make funny joke" earlier in his thread, but I'll have to say he made a lot of sense - Peanuts make the elephant big. Ah one and a two... Not always what should be done, but definitely worth a try when trying to coordinate dexterity and motor skills.
To start off with, learn the chord pattern to a fairly simple song, play it over and over until you can do it almost without thinking, then open you mouth. It'll take some practice, but thats what I did/ do!
You'll get there!
Relax and day dream (trance like) when your playing and singing at the same time.. If we think about something too much it becomes soo much harder. we can multi task... it's not just for the opposite sex:)) Use your own material when singing at the same time.. it's much easier to have something original and the original interpretation in your head. Once we can do that then move on to other peoples stuff:))
its an odd thing i cannot sing while playing guitar, nor bass, but i can while playing drums, not every song but i can on some. i dont know why, you would expect that drumming and singing would be the hardest since unlike a bassist or guitarist or keys, youre using your legs and arms - hands, and many other muscles etc, more continously than most instruments, it would seem that would make it harder to sing and play drums. overall i do not prefer to sing and play any instrument at the same time, mostly cause i cannot, but i always feel more comfortable focusing on one thing at a time, as in recording.
When playing live with the band I often drop out the guitar when singing or just play a chord or pick out some notes, let it hang then hit the next chord, this adds space to the song. All this depends on the tempo of course, the faster the song the harder it is to sing and play , the slower easier.
Playing on your own is loads easier than with a band, the band changes the dynamics of the song so me the guitarist /singer can look for gaps when the guitar can come and go. It does help that I have another guitarist to to fill in the bits I leave out. Usually we all come in on the chorus then drop back again.
Just keep at it.
i concur chip. if i can do a bit of shords while singing but not all and another guitarist can, then thats the way i'd go, especially with having such an apparent mind block on being able to sing and play at the same time. i suppose it is practice, but ive got like 4 instruments to practice, practice singing and arranging, composing writing, mixing, etc. just dont have the time for that specific feat. : \
one would think it would be hardest to play drums and sing yet it seems to be the only instrument i can come close to singing and playing at the same time. i am lucky if i can sing, while singing! :P