Posting frequency / How to get more comments

[64Guitars]

I've noticed that a few members have been posting several songs almost every day. Although, we don't currently have any rule against this, I'd like to point out why this is bad for the site and for the poster.

We all post our songs with the hope of getting some positive feedback and encouragement from our peers. And we usually get it. That's what makes Songcrafters such a great site. But it's also a very active site and most of us don't have time to listen to all of the song posts and comment on them. So, when we check our unread messages and find that many of them are from one or two members who've been posting several songs per day, we feel overwhelmed and will often decide to skip all of that person's songs. Instead, we'll check out someone who's only posted one song and we'll post a comment on that song. So, if you want to get more feedback on your music, I'd recommend posting only one song at a time. Then wait a few days to give people a chance to listen and comment before you post another song. I think you'll find that people are much more responsive to your songs that way.

If you don't believe me, take a look at the posts in the Original Songs board, sorted by number of replies:

http://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?board=91.0;sort=replies;desc

The song with the most replies (155!) is Geir's "This is a Song". So far this year, Geir has posted seven songs. That's an average of 1 song every 7.4 days or roughly one song per week. Yet his jukebox has 273 songs in it, so it's not that he doesn't have many songs to post -- it's just that he's wisely spread them out over a long period of time, giving other members time to take in each song and appreciate it. Geir's songs always get lots of comments. Of course, that's partly because he's such an incredibly talented musician and we all love him.   But I think that if he had started posting 3 or 4 songs every day when he joined Songcrafters years ago, many members wouldn't have bothered to listen. And those who did probably would have got fed up after a while. I think Phil Collins is an incredibly talented musician and I was a huge fan (I've seen him live with Genesis and with Brand X), but I'm one of the many people who got sick and tired of hearing his voice every time I turned on the radio. I think overexposure cost him a lot of fans. So my advice to all members is don't become the Phil Collins of Songcrafters. Become the Geir of Songcrafters instead.   Spread out your posts to give other members time to listen to them and comment instead of posting many songs in a short period of time.

Aside from the fact that many of your posts will be largely ignored if you post too frequently, it's also unfair to other members. A lot of people don't have time to visit the site every day. When they do get a chance to visit, there's no way they can listen to every song that's been posted since their last visit so they just check out a few songs from page one of their favourite board(s). If a few members are dominating page one because they're posting too frequently, that unfairly bumps other members to subsequent pages very quickly where they could go unnoticed. So, by reducing the frequency of your posts, you're not only improving your chances of getting comments, but you're also helping to keep a level playing field at Songcrafters so that each member has an equal chance of having their song listened to and commented on.

I think the main reason that some members post several songs per day is that they have a large collection of previously-recorded material (often spanning several decades) and they want to post it here to get some feedback. Please don't. We don't mind the occasional blast from the past but please don't post your older work too often. We want to hear what you've recorded this week, not what you did in 1986. So get out your recorder or fire up your favourite software DAW and record something new. If you need some inspiration, consider recording something for one of our current festivals. There's still time to record a protest song or something for VarietyFest (covers of songs by Dio, Captain Beefheart, Wire, Creedence Clearwater Revival, The Doors, or Neil Diamond) for our Jan/Feb festivals. And we'll soon be voting for our March/April festivals. I'm sure you can think of something to record for one of these festivals. Or record any song you like. It doesn't have to be for a festival. Although, there are some advantages to posting for a festival. Your song will be added to the festival jukebox and the extra attention of that often means that you'll get more comments than you might otherwise.

Most people who've got a large back catalogue of recordings already have them posted on another site such as SoundClick or alonetone. If you want people to listen to your older work, I'd recommend putting a link in your signature to another site containing your songs, with a comment like "To hear more of my music, please visit my SoundClick page" (or whatever). Better still, you can include icons for popular music sites in your signature which are linked to your own pages. This guide describes how to do that:

http://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=4

If you need help editing your signature, send me a PM and I'd be glad to help you.


Another important tip for getting more comments is to make sure you comment on the songs of other members. We all support each other here. So to get comments, you have to give comments. This hasn't been a problem recently but in the past we've had a few new members who posted some songs, got lots of feedback, then disappeared without commenting on anyone else's songs. That's not fair and it's not how we do things here at Songcrafters.

You don't necessarily have to comment on the songs of each and every person who comments on your songs. I've seen that a few times and I think it's pretty obvious that those people are just trying to fulfill an obligation. Instead, you should comment on the songs that you like, regardless of who posted them. But you should try to keep the number of comments in the same ballpark as those that you received. For example, if you post a song and get about 20 comments, then you listen to 2 songs by other members and post a comment on each, don't pat yourself on the back and consider yourself a good member. There's a bit of an imbalance there. You need to listen to a lot more songs from other members and post more comments. I'm not suggesting that you count the comments to your song posts and make sure that you post exactly the same number of comments to other people's songs. That would be silly. But you know whether you're in the same ballpark or not without counting. Just try to give as much as you get (or more). If you do, you'll find that there will always be people who are happy to comment on your songs when you post them. Unless you've become the Phil Collins of Songcrafters.

If you're one of the people who've been over-posting, please don't feel bad about it. It's largely my fault for not making things like this clear to new members. We've never had many rules here at Songcrafters. I've noticed in other forums that people seldom pay any attention to rules anyway. Instead, we just try to set a good example and hope that new members will follow it. That usually works quite well. In the few cases where it doesn't, we will either send the member a friendly personal PM or post a public message such as this. The public message isn't intended to embarass or offend anyone but it has the advantage that other new members might see it in the future. Still, I should probably update the Welcome message that goes out to new members to make them aware of our posting etiquette and the advantages of spreading out their song posts over a longer period of time.

[Migs]

sticky ?

[64Guitars]

sticky ?

Done.

[Vaisvil]

Since I recently posted a song from the 80's amongst a flurry of other posts I can't help but feel this is in part a message to me. I would like to add a couple points here. First off - what ARE my thoughts on your long post 64 guitars?:

http://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=13646.0;msg=177997

An answer to the question posed by facemask93  Shame nobody commented on this , i loved it , i love Tull , and i know where you are coming from , i think you did a great job , you got a really nice tone on your acoustic , and the vox is fine , all round enjoyable listen man

Robbie Burns

And I said...

Thank you very much for the comments!

I have to say that I don't come here often and usually a community gives back what it receives and I haven't been giving much. I'm spread pretty thin these days and my main focus is microtonal music - but I do enjoy my roots - like this album by Tull.

[Vaisvil]

I would like to add that a public post like this makes songcrafters look less than friendly.

I have been a part of (or ran) a lot of communities and usually this sort of thing is better handled by private messages. Sure it takes more effort but it reduces the possibility of negative controversy by orders of magnitude.


And I really have to take issue with but please don't post your older work too often. We want to hear what you've recorded this week, not what you did in 1986.

So Sgt. Pepper is out? We shouldn't listen to Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin because they had their peak in the 70's? Somehow Devo's performance of Satisfaction has lost its impact? http://www.myspace.com/video/al/devo-satisfaction/1041008

With all due respect that is an absurd statement to me. If you wrote a killer song in 86 I'd want to hear it. Tape hiss and all.

Best Regards,

Chris Vaisvil

[Blooby]

I understand this will be close to an impossibility, but I suggest we leave this thread alone before everybody and their brother goes on the defensive. 

Just a thought.

Blooby

[Tony W]

I think it's a well written, well articulated post 64, thank you.

It's against everything in my being, but I'll be taking Blooby's advice. 

[Gnasty]

 

[Burtog]

The first post (64's) makes sense to me!

[oldrottenhead]

The first post (64's) makes sense to me!

yup good advice i should heed , i posted song 11 and 12 of my uke album  one after the other, 12 garnered a good response song 11 zilch.

[64Guitars]

I think you've misunderstood my point, Chris. If you've recorded this week a Tull cover from the 1970s, or some 18th century Bach, please post it. We'd love to hear it. Music from any era is more than welcome. I was only talking about the older recordings of members; not the era in which the song was written or originally recorded. Songcrafters is not the place for people to post their back catalogues of recordings. We're a forum for people who are actively recording music now. As such, we're mainly interested in hearing what our members are recording today, not what they've done in the past. Although, as I've already said, the occasional older recording is acceptable. We'd just like our members to concentrate on making new recordings instead.

I can't believe that anyone here is currently recording 3 or 4 songs every day. So when I see someone posting with that kind of frequency, I have to assume that they're posting their back catalogue. We don't want that. As I tried to make clear in my earlier post, that kind of posting frequency is bad for the site, unfair to other members, and bad for the poster because he or she will not get many comments.

I think, by far, our most prolific songwriter and poster has to be oldrottenhead. He has posted well over 500 songs. Almost all of them were new recordings. But he's also the earliest active member of Songcrafters and has posted those songs over a period of more than four years. That works out to an average of about one song every 3 or 4 days. Most of our members don't produce anywhere near that kind of output. I think that an average of one song every three days is about the limit of what we should accept. Nobody needs to post 3 or 4 songs every day. And it's very unlikely that anyone can record 3 or 4 songs every day. So if members only post the songs they're recording now, then posting frequency shouldn't be a problem. There are plenty of other music sites where members can post their older recordings. And, as I said, our members are welcome to post a link to those sites in their signatures so that other members can go to those sites and listen to the older recordings if they're interested. But we don't want large numbers of older recordings posted here, especially on a frequent basis.

I would like to add that a public post like this makes songcrafters look less than friendly.

I have been a part of (or ran) a lot of communities and usually this sort of thing is better handled by private messages. Sure it takes more effort but it reduces the possibility of negative controversy by orders of magnitude.

As I said, we sometimes handle these situations privately and sometimes publicly. Each way has its pros and cons. A person who receives a private message may feel that they're being treated unfairly. Why single out one person? By posting publicly, it's clear that the comments apply to all members -- past, present, and future. So no member need feel that he or she is being treated unfairly. And it helps to avoid future problems since new members might see this topic, or we can direct them to it.

I don't think you'll find a friendlier or more supportive music community than Songcrafters. We think Songcrafters is the best music community for people who are actively recording music today and want to share those recordings with their peers to get feedback and support. We'll continue to do whatever we can to ensure that Songcrafters remains the best community for that audience. Other communities may have a different audience or different objectives. They can do what they like. We have no obligation or desire to be like them.

[Vaisvil]

Outside of the good observation that multiple posts by one person tends to bury the posts of other people (which is really a site design problem) I think this conversation is kind of over kill.

Its some unwritten law of the internet that different communities like different music. It often happens what I post on one site will not get response at another, or possibly any other site. As a composer one sort of need to take it in stride. Each community has its own definition of good and bad.

It is important to mention that so far in my experience here no one seems to be mean, overtly egotistical or any other such personality types that plague other sites. I never felt unwelcomed and never had a question as to my responses to posts here => until this thread.

I also hasten to point out that what song crafters does have is an extremely high level of musicianship. Higher than most sites I visit. So, to be honest, its a level I don't reach very often. With that in mind I found my not receiving comments on everything I post unsurprising. Especially as I slowly work through the incredible amount of great work posted here. (the Strawberry Fields solo acoustic and I Can See for Miles covers come quickly to mind) 

On the other hand I am confident that if I posted something this community found mind blowing there would be many comments even if I never posted a comment on anyone else's work. i.e. as a community exceptional work seems to be rewarded with recognition.  I can certainly deal with that type of trade off.

So, to be honest, if it were up to me, I'd edit your welcome message making your posting etiquette clear, delete this thread, and move on.

One more point. If if I were the fifth Beatle and posted a track from 1967 that almost made it onto Sgt. Pepper but George Martin talked me out of including would you *really* turn your back on it?



Personally I think the result would be that most everyone here would be astonished. Not bored.

But... I will be sure to post fresh meat from now on. And, yeah, I have done 3 or 4 songs in a day. Actually, in a few hours. But that is me.  I thrive on a site like http://improvfriday.com/ where the whole point is rapid composition.

[Hook]

I read this an hour & a half ago on my phone. Couldn't wait to get home and comment cause i love the uncomfortable stuff, and sure enough 64 made everything well and good & I forgot what I wanted to say anyhow. I have been posting alot lately, not multiple times a day but quite a bit, and love the comments I get and definitely see less comments when i post more often. As much as I like the comments, I do!, I more like the sharing with peers aspect of the site! I initially used the yahoo group for  info & help I needed and posted a few tunes in 2009 but found the site very confusing back then. I was also recording music for children almost exclusively at the time and not interested in sharing those tunes. When I started to slow down the night gigs last August i really missed playing/performing music for adults and was reminded of this site from the yahoo group which still gets a ? every now and then. This site seemed to have had a major facelift and was very user friendly and I jumped in.
This is the only site I'm active on, I have an alonetone page and posted my 1st cd, and will post my next there. I like how you can post playlists/cd's and the web address is clean and nice,( www.alonetone.com/hook ) but I would perfer to document & share my recordings here, mostly because of the quality of talent, I respect the opinions I get and I love to listen and I do try to listen, everyday if I can often for hours. I download what I like and I comment on what I want to. I can't comment on everything but I try to often, I have my favorite writers/singers, players but I just dig the vibe here.
Mostly it has inspired me in major ways, the festivals are excellent exercises in recording/writing/arranging/playing and I find it super fun. I've only collaborated a few times, but enjoyed them immensely and will be seeking out some future collaborations soon. I love to hear someone improve recording to recording, lord knows I try to get better with each one.Prolific writers like ORH and Greeny impress me so much, I don't like everything they do, but I love to listen to them all and they inspire me to write more and better. I'm not hear for fans, but have found kindred spirits and perhaps some friends. I'm hear as a writer and recorder guy!  
Rock on!

[Hook]

Forgot to talk about the actual topic...sorry!

[oldrottenhead]

rock on